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Heather Mills - Amputee Forum
doggie

Lost something, Madam!

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Hi everyone,

now I'm sorry but I couldn't resist the following:

I went 'food' shopping with my wife the other day. We went to a big supermarket and so I used my w/chair. After we finished we went to the coffee shop, which was adjacent to the disabled toilet/toilets. Had a cup of what was described as coffee and I went to use the disabled toilet. It had the little red thingy showing it was in use, so I waited and waited. After what seems ages the door opened and a woman walked out!

Now without thinking I told her she had left something in the toilet! So she went back in, looked around and said she hadn't. At this time a store worker came by and I told the storeworker that the woman had left something in the toilet. The woman denied she had, so the storeworker went to have a look, came out and agreed with the woman!

So I asked them where was the woman's wheelchair?

best as.....

Steve

(Whose wife has told him she is not going shopping with him again!)

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That's not funny.

If you'd have done that to me, I would think you were a cocky, confrontational idiot. This sort of thing does no favours for the plight of disabled people, who often get treated differently without good reason, trying to belittle someone in this way (and in front of someone else) helps no one. You don't know anything about this person, or why they were in there. A wheelchair is not, as far as I know, a requirement of the disabled toilet user.

Just an aside...

I don't see 'disabled toilets' as being solely for disabled people... they are provided so that disabled people can use a toilet, where the 'normal' toilet is inaccessible, why does that exclude 'non-disabled' people from using them. There could be any number of reasons why she was using that toilet, it's only a toilet after all.

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Hi Oneblueleg

an interesting perception!

If you'd have done that to me, I would think you were a cocky, confrontational idiot. This sort of thing does no favours for the plight of disabled people

This 'cocky confrontational idiot' spent 6 months of his life in 2001 participating in the consultation of the DDA 1998, review, which came into effect 10/01/04 for the plight of disabled person's and continues to advise Goverment Depts on DDA and Health matters. Had I known your views, I would have spent the time doing something else, like sitting in doors for the rest of my life.

who often get treated differently without good reason, trying to belittle someone in this way

Er, umm excuse me, I was treated differently. My needs were totally ignored by a person who who had total disregard for a person using a wheel chair! But she thought it was ok for me to wait!

How belittling is it for a person in a wheelchair, urinating/vacating their bowels because an able bodied person has denied them a facility that is speciffically for them?

Now because as a wheel chair user I am excluded from using a 'normal' size toilet. I have to use a wheelchair accessible toilet. Which the purpose is for wheelchair users to gain access and not be discriminated against!

Therefore if an able bodied person uses a 'Disabled toilet' then that person is discriminating against a disabled person, by denying a disabled person the use of that 'disabled toilet'.

If I follow your perception, then it must be also that disabled parking spaces are not just for disabled persons, they are for everyone!

So please tell me what is the point of having toilets specifically designed for wheel chair users, also what is the point of having disabled parking spaces if, as you infer anyone can use them?

best as ever

Steve

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Totally guilty of this myself. Especially when my kids were younger and I had the stroller, mothers have wheels too! I have never walked out of the stall and found someone waiting who was in a wheelchair... I wonder what might have happened?

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I would have act in the same "cocky, confrontational idiot" way, Steve... and laughed my had off afterwards.

I hate those people without respect for one's disabilities who park on places not ment for them or pee in pots not intended for them.

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This is interesting, as I have just come back from the gym and this happened to me too.

Let me explain...

I go to the gym with my mum and/or husband and take my wheelchair to the gym (just for the journey) everytime. It is about a 20 minute walk and I prefer to save my energy for the gym itself, rather than wearing myself out before I even get there. I say 20 minute walk, but if I was to walk all that way (which I have done in the past), it would take me more like 30-35 minutes. Also, it is quite uphill on the way back, so I walk abit, but then get pushed the remainder of the way.

Anyway, today, after my workout, I needed to go to the loo before we set off home. I have NEVER noticed another wheelchair user before, as if they did come into the gym, I would definitely see them as there is a separate entrance from everyone elses - which has to be unlocked everytime I go - to go the lift. Like I said, I have never noticed any other wheelchair users and I have been going since February. So, today, I went to go the disabled loo as I usually find the regular toilets a bit difficult to get up from. I usually need something to hold onto - and the rails that come in the disabled toilets are perfect for that.

But, today the toilet was occupied - again. This has happened MANY times before. I waited for several minutes, but no-one came out. I didn't want to risk the regular toilets as I nearly got stuck before! I decided to keep holding till I got home, which was NOT comfortable, especially when you've drank loads of water in the gym. I told my husband to leg it on the way back!

Now, some may say that maybe there was someone who is disabled in the toilet, but there couldn't possibly have been. I am very obversant, and would spot someone like that from a mile off. Besides, it wasn't very busy today. Also, the gym is on the first floor, so a wheelchair user/disabled person would have to come in the way that I do - via the lift, which is reserved for people like me. I know some disabilites are hidden, but we're talking about a physical/mobility/walking disability here.

So, oneblueleg, I agree that not everyone that wishes to use the disabled toilet is a wheelchair user (as I never go out without my prostheses), but always tend to go for the disabled toilet. BUT I don't agree that I should have to have been put out like that, when the regular toilets are right next door! That is just not fair.

Now, would you consider that cocky too??

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Guest lyinhart

What country are you in......Here in the United States I've NEVER heard that the Handicapped toilets are ONLY for the Handicapped. They're designed the way they are so that the Handicapped can ALSO use them...... What if another Handicapped person was in there and made you wait...... were you gonna get on their case because maybe their Handicap wasn't as important as yours...... come on, think this through logically...... If you weren't Handicapped and there were no Handicapped stalls you would have had to wait then too....... wouldn't you.

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Er....um

What country are you in
They're designed the way they are so that the Handicapped can ALSO use them......

Well strangly enough I am in a country whereby the Disabled Discrimination Act has provision for Disabled persons not to be discriminated against!

Thus the provision of disabled toilets.

These toilets are designed and installed specifically to comply with the DDA for the purpose of disabled persons, if not then there is no point in having the provision in the DDA to accommodate the needs of the disabled person! Thus discriminating against disabled persons!

Now as stated the situation was that the woman walked out of the toilet.

The nearest disabled toilet from that location is half a mile away, the nearest womens toilet is 4 yards away.

Suppose I use the non-disabled toilet?

I park my w/chair blocking the entrance to the mens toilet and everyone has to wait for me to get my crutch's and get into the toilet and when finished; get to my w/chair stow my crutch's and move on. I can really see every guy waiting for me to do this at closing time at the local bar!

come on, think this through logically

Good idea!

You say they are designed so that Handicapped can ALSO use them?

I think you will find that logically, they were designed for the access of wheel chairs, upon the assumption that the user of the wheelchair is disabled. Otherwise there would be no point in designing them!

I don't have any problems with other disabled persons using them and having to wait.

If you weren't Handicapped and there were no Handicapped stalls you would have had to wait then too....... wouldn't you.

Nope, very doubtfull!

There are facilities for 6 people in the men's and 6 in the womens non-disabled toilets at the supermarket where the situation occurred!

So this begs the question:why do non-disabled people use disabled toilets, even though there are more facilities for them close by?

Best regards

Steve

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I wasn't going to comment but as I read I decided that I had to add my 2 cents worth.

First of all I totally agree with Steve on this one.

One being here in the STATES the ADA regulates things like Parking spaces at the supermarket or shopes and the size of the isles so that they are big enough for wheelchairs motorized or non motorized and not lastly but next the fact that there has to be a handicapped stall in each restroom meaning they are wheel chair accessable. Meaning that THEY ARE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSABLE so with that thought why if you're not in a WHEEL CHAIR would you want to use probably the only WHEEL CHAIR accessable stall. What if you were in this stall and someone Like what happened to Steve comes along and needs to use this stall especially when most restrooms have more stalls for ablebodied than handicapped.

So that's my 2 cents in a nut shell.

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Guest lyinhart

That's all well and good....I just wonder how long you waited to find someone wanting to use a toilet stall you beleive they shouldn't have used and then why you didn't say something before they went in since there were so many other stalls you know were empty. Now, on the other hand...... IF you weren't waiting (to get on someone's case, and I do too....when they use a parking spot meant for handicapped) then tell me...... HOW do you know the other stalls WEREN'T in use when they went to use your private stall. Hey, I'm a chair user too....... But instead of making a scene and getting the non-handicapped around the world thinking that we get more than we should (and unfortunately, some do think that) I find it best to be an adult about it and wait. And yes, the ADA does dictate the design and size of toilet stalls..... BUT, there is NO LAW stating that those stalls are ONLY for the use of Handicapped.

Again, sorry, but inteligent and logical thinking leads me to beleive that the same holds true in no matter country you're in.

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Hi Lyinhart

I just wonder how long you waited to find someone wanting to use a toilet stall you beleive they shouldn't have used and then why you didn't say something before they went in since there were so many other stalls you know were empty.

Please note:

and I went to use the disabled toilet. It had the little red thingy showing it was in use, so I waited and

So you wrongly assume I was waiting and watching!

HOW do you know the other stalls WEREN'T in use when they went to use your private stall

To get to the other stalls anyone would have had to pass me, no one came in or out in the time I was waiting!

But instead of making a scene and getting the non-handicapped around the world thinking that we get more than we should (and unfortunately, some do think that)

Good point, so much so that a Senior Member of the Bank of England said that Disabled people get so much money from the Government that everyone wants to be disabled! I get all of $97.00p a week for being disabled !

Recently it has been reported that a guy in a wheelchair was refused to be served in a pub/bar. The reason given was because he might injure himself. (Health and Safety issues) The real reason IMO, is so the company by not serving w/chair users do not have to make toilet facilities for w/chair users.

If the company wins, IMO, then it will be total exclusion for w/chair users in pubs.

Best as....

Steve

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Hi everyone,

now I'm sorry but I couldn't resist the following:

I went 'food' shopping with my wife the other day. We went to a big supermarket and so I used my w/chair. After we finished we went to the coffee shop, which was adjacent to the disabled toilet/toilets. Had a cup of what was described as coffee and I went to use the disabled toilet. It had the little red thingy showing it was in use, so I waited and waited. After what seems ages the door opened and a woman walked out!

Now without thinking I told her she had left something in the toilet! So she went back in, looked around and said she hadn't. At this time a store worker came by and I told the storeworker that the woman had left something in the toilet. The woman denied she had, so the storeworker went to have a look, came out and agreed with the woman!

So I asked them where was the woman's wheelchair?

best as.....

Steve

(Whose wife has told him she is not going shopping with him again!)

It took me a second or two for the penny to drop, but I finally got it...It infuritated me when that happenes. The other day at Kings cross (the other week or month actually) I tried to get in the disabled toilet, but it was locked. I waited for a few monutes and tried again thinking it may have got stuck, but again I couldn't get in. Along come another disabled person and she tried too but couldn't opened. after a while a station cleaner/security (not sure which now) came and attempted to open the door. As he was trying the door opened and out come a perfectly helathy couple with an alsation dog, who then promptly decided to have a go at me, the station worker then got on the intercom and called more waorkers who came escorted them away....

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As usual here comes my two cents, well ok, make that three!!! :P :lol: I agree with Steve on this one. First, it saddens me to think how many people out there seem to begrudge the Handicap people from having designated areas intended for their use only. It's sorta like their mentallity is. "what makes them think, their so special"? Well IMPO, I don't think you'll find very many of us feeling

'SPECIAL' do to a misfortune in our lives. If you should ask, are we SPECIAL, in that, we're all survivors and proud of it.... YES!!! However, I do feel we are very deserving, after the challenges we've had to meet, in order to return back into society. So please let me say to anyone who feels entitled to have access to handicap areas, that I'm far more than willing to swap places with you.... not a problem!!! :P :wacko:

When I first came home, my mother-in-law was telling me, of all people, how her daughter was trying to find a parking place at Wal-Mart and started b--itchin cos there were so many handicap ones there and very few were being used at the time. I was dumb-founded for one, that she'd have the gaul to say this to me, but it didn't take me long to reply back, saying, "you tell your daughter for me that she wants to be DAMN thankful she doesn't need one of them, instead of complaining...... honestly!! :rolleyes:

Perhaps it would be better though, for those who can't or don't want to understand, if they'd put, 'HANDICAP STALL ONLY'!!! but then again, you'll probably always have some who feel entitled to everything regardless. :(

Sheila lbk

Maine USA

Keep Smiling :)

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OK, now for what I thought was a funny story. :lol: I went to this clinic the other day, to make sure it was the correct place to get my flu shot. Yes, and of course with my Dr slip, having asthma and arterial disease. I asked and the receptionist there said, in kind of a mean tone, "yes, but it's only for high risk cases, over 65 and for children. Like I thought I was just going to walk in an get one without a slip.... like duh!!! Anyways I couldn't resist, I said, the Botox works very well, my husband thinks I'm still in my childhood, and life in itself is a high risk!!!! :P :rolleyes: :lol:

Needless to say, I did get my flu shot and I hope and pray that we don't have a bad season, for all those many others, who weren't able to recieve it!!! :(

Sheila lbk

Maine USA

Keep Smiling :)

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Good answer ... :lol: :P :D ...i can just imagine the look on her face ...: :rolleyes:..' um , yes mam, sign here please..Would you like a cup of coffee ??' hehehe

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Doggie...

This 'cocky confrontational idiot' spent 6 months of his life in 2001 participating in the consultation of the DDA 1998, review, which came into effect 10/01/04 for the plight of disabled person's and continues to advise Goverment Depts on DDA and Health matters. Had I known your views, I would have spent the time doing something else, like sitting in doors for the rest of my life.

This is completely irrelavant information, and doesn't help your argument, congratulations, it's very commendable, but still irrelavant. If just knowing my views alone would have lead you to doing something else, then I'm sorry to have wasted your time... I didn't even know! (I think that last sentance was just in the heat of the moment, I don't think you meant it).

My needs were totally ignored by a person who who had total disregard for a person using a wheel chair!

I think that's overplaying the situation slightly, you don't know anything about that person, or why they were in that toilet.

If I follow your perception, then it must be also that disabled parking spaces are not just for disabled persons, they are for everyone!

No, quite obviously I don't mean that, you're being confrontational again, it doesn't help.

I just think there are many more things 'disabled' people can do to win over 'able bodied' people to the way of thinking that ensures everyone is treated with respect. Belittling someone in such a way is wrong, even if your interpretation of the way they have treated you is belittling, two wrongs don't make a right. Often in these circumstances a look can be as effective, although confrontation in any form will not gain anyones respect, and will only serve to encourage a 'them and us' culture.

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Guest lyinhart

Now that's a dumb remark.....you're talkin' apples and oranges duhhhh....

If your market had only two spaces....are you gonna yell at some amputee or other type of handicapped because your space was taken.....NO.... you'd have to wait for them....... car spaces are handled differently by law and I did say that.

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If I need to use a toilet I will use whatever I can find. If I'm desparate and the men's and disabled toilets are full (or in the case of the mens's, swimming in P**s) I would use the ladies. Now when I emerge fully refreshed I would not be surprised to find most of the women in that toilet demanding to know why I have just used their facilities and I would expect to have to justify myself. Exactly as Steve has expected an able bodied person to justify their actions.

Now can we keep this part of the forum light hearted as it was intended. There are other areas on this site where we can pretend we're able bodied whilst at the same time moan at the high cost of our medical supplies ;)

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If I need to use a toilet ..... I would use the ladies.

Why is it that all the disabled toilets I seem to come across that are intergrated with 'normal toilets' are in the Ladies? There are few exceptions to this (apart from when the disabled toilet is on its own). However when in France recently we had no such problem and both the mens and ladies had a disabled toilet in them. I admit that some places you do need to pay a small fee to get in! :P

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Along the lines of Muz, I was in the gents at a Sting concert when a young lady (a little worse for alcohol) came into the toilet with her hands over her eyes saying "I'm not looking guys, honest, just need to pee". Before she could get much further security came in and escorted her away. My thought at the time was how the hell was she going to find anything with her eyes covered up. The line outside of the ladies was phenominally long at the time and I guess she couldnt wait.

I'm sure most of the ladies in the forum would agree that some venues dont cater for females adequately regardless of ability or disability.

Now for a serious question, in the event of all toilets being in use do you think that an able bodied person can use the disabled toilet? Most of the toilets I have seen are integrated in to the normalgents and ladies so Ive always thought it permissible to use that stall if all others are full.

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Now for a serious question, in the event of all toilets being in use do you think that an able bodied person can use the disabled toilet? Most of the toilets I have seen are integrated in to the normalgents and ladies so Ive always thought it permissible to use that stall if all others are full.

Personally I donlt really mind providing they treat it with respect and give priority to disabled people who want to use it.

Another question is how do some of these people get a disabled toilet key? I have lost count of the numbe rof times when I have waited outside a toilet only to be faced with a very well and fit looking disabled person who appears to have lost their disability during the course of their time in the toilet!

I know when I applied for my key from the council I had to offer proof that I was disabled (being in a wheelchair wasn't enough)....

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If I need to use a toilet I will use whatever I can find. If I'm desparate and the men's and disabled toilets are full (or in the case of the mens's, swimming in P**s) I would use the ladies. Now when I emerge fully refreshed I would not be surprised to find most of the women in that toilet demanding to know why I have just used their facilities and I would expect to have to justify myself. Exactly as Steve has expected an able bodied person to justify their actions.

Now can we keep this part of the forum light hearted as it was intended. There are other areas on this site where we can pretend we're able bodied whilst at the same time moan at the high cost of our medical supplies ;)

Great post Muz! You've said it exactly how it is! ;)

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Now can we keep this part of the forum light hearted as it was intended. There are other areas on this site where we can pretend we're able bodied whilst at the same time moan at the high cost of our medical supplies ;)

Who said it wasn't light hearted? Often people impose their own feelings upon what others are saying. I have a very relaxed look on my face, and am calm and happy, as I'm sure everyone else is.

I don't get the second bit, who's pretending to be able bodied round here? go on own up!

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:rolleyes: Hi. I dont think you were moaning.You were stating a fact if you are Lucky enough to find a Disabled parking space at a Supermarket and then when you get in there and someone who is not Disabled is useing the Disabled Toilet and.after you have waited you start your shopping,you are Looking at something on the shelf,s and somebody Lean,s over you or they push your wheelchair out of the way so there you are looking to see what you want then find yourself looking at something different I say excuse me they Look at me as if I am not there.they not only want there space they want Mine as well.But dont get me wrong most people are very Nice it is just a few, and those few should know better.Kind regard,s Pat.

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Hi Pat

And I thought I was the only one who got pushed. Mostly though they ram me out of the way with their trolleys, happens on average 8 times, per visit to the supermarket.

Now, for those of you who have been following this thread, I thought you might be interested in the following:

DDA disabled toilets

best as...

Steve

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