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I know when I said do we have to have these post's on our site I did not mean people to try and score point's off each other.Please let's keep it friendly,and if someone Tell's us they have a illness we should not question that ,but I do wonder when people come up with these miracle cures why they have not been taken up before now if they are proved to work.It might be the case as we have all heard before of the car that work's on water and not petrol they might well be Urban Legend's .I dont know.

Regards Pat.

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Like I keep saying. Nothing else matters!

Try telling that to someone from Niger or one of the other hell holes of the world where the real threat to the survival of yourself and your family, is that of starvation and disease.

Now the question is does this thread belong here? First off, was Dr Roy an amputee? If not then this thread should not be here as it has nothing to do with with an amputees accomplishment. Secondly, what exactly is Dr Roy's accomplishment. During his lifetime he failed spectacularly to have his invention taken seriously so his life's work can hardly be an example of great achievement or even a small personal success.

So Dennis, when you achieve what Dr Roy failed to do by all means post it here. Until that time stick to lobbying politicians and the scientific establishment.

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I am the amputee. Dr. Roy died in 1994. I think the Roy Process is important given

the recent bombings in London. If Paul and Heather wish me to stop....I will.



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OK Friends,

I guess it's time that I stepped in here. As Pat has requested as a member, and I am asking.... Please keep it friendly. Dennis has been a member in good standing of this forum for a long time, and deserves a great deal more respect than that. His topic hurts no one. And I applaud Dennis's desire to have a cause. If you don't want to jump on board with it, you don't need to reply to it at all. His topic is his cause and passion to accomplish. Please, let Dennis be.

Thank you.

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well said.

Let the poor man have a cause to believe in and express it on this site, why not? He’s not offending anyone. His unbreakable determination and not bowing to the band wagen dynamics is an example and should actually be encouraged. Maybe it’s his way to moving forward in life, by having something other than his amputation to brood about.

I agree though, the statement ‘nothing else matters’ is a bit harsh. What matters to someone may be peanuts to someone else , so noone should judge what is important to a person or not. Everyone percieves things differently.

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Peoplees , theere iis nothhing wrrong with good disussin oof stuffs that is good for the environment and human rigghts an danimal; riights an dstuf that wil helping alll of us in soome wayy . Just imagiing pplease if we didin't havingthis discusssins now , maybe we wwoulldn't even knowing about whatthis is al abaout an dfor that beccuase we ae now knowing morer aaboout it , we are a little bit smartter bbecuase of it , evvenn if not all of u sunderstandding it that mucch .

Whatts wronng for takiing up a accause anaywaay ? Would annny oof you considering me a nutt casse becuaase i activly takking up causses like human rights and animall rights and envirrinments stufs ? I hoping not but it is ppeolle who taking up causses that making huge differences in peoeles livesd . Look at what Lance Armstrong did for canccer researrch and how he did it . He toked up a accuase and maded iti soo that EVERYYONE is morer aware of it now . There is notthiiing wrong to standing uppiing forsomethng we belivvinging in an dremeber tooo that those whho doing noting will not making any difeencces at al but thiose who are not afarrid to stand up and beiing couuntted are the ones who making changes for tebetter for evveryone .

You cann stand by quieetlyand WATCH as history goess by or you cannbeeing a PART of that historry by PARTICIPATTIING in iit .

Look at this in aanothter way to mayybbe . Itt is vissionarie who makking the wworld a better placce to livving and it is visoonnaairre who making things that helping US makiign our livves eassier and morer comfortablle . Morer dirrectly relatted to US hhere , it was vissonaarrries who madded thinggs avvaailaable for US to bbeing able to beter walkking or doiing othter things becucase soomeone had ann iddea , a caaause and bbelived in iit and was not afarriad to trying something new .

Muz , you saidded : " ... So Dennis, when you achieve what Dr Roy failed to do by all means post it here. Until that time stick to lobbying politicians and the scientific establishment. .... "

I thinkking that what DEnnis is doing is caryin gon fromm whwere Dr. Roy lefftted oof . by speareadding the worrd and teacchinng US . Thhere is notthiing wrrong wiwth that an dfor that , we are al a litttle bit more rsmarter bbecuaase of it . Whhat we doo what knowwl;eddge is of coursse up to us but to denyy one the oportinutiy to getting knowleedge iis wrong i thinking . Excactickly like kaz saidded : " ... What matters to someone may be peanuts to someone else , so noone should judge what is important to a person or not. Everyone percieves things differently. ... " ..................... ZACKTICKLY ................

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Requests have been made to be more friendly to people putting post's on this site.So can we now get back to normal and stop trying to score point's off each other.Perhaps we will be more tolerant in future and I include myself when I say that.And Dennis perhaps you could make your post's a little shorter and use your own thought's as well as Dr Roy's.I am certain you would make it more interesting reading.

Regards Pat.

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To all,

Thank you, I will be more aware now! I was at the Mayo Clinic for West Nile Virus,

they said I had a heart attack last week. So I am just surviving now. I got worried

about the Roy Process. Hope you understand.



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Dennis I know how you must be feeling about having an heart attack and not knowing you had one.Yesterday I went with my husband to hospital for his 2 yearly check up because 4 years ago he had an operation to save his life on the main artery to the brain because it was 90% + blocked now they have found that the left side Artery is completely block and they cant operate they said he must of had a stroke at sometime during the last 2 years he collapse 18 months ago but was told he had fainted he was very weak for about 2 week's but was OK after that.Now he as to rely on one of the main arteries to the brain instead of 2 if that ones block's and we pray that it does not it would be very bad new's if that happens.Sorry I had to tell someone my head is in a spin at the moment.

Regards Pat

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Pat UK,

It's OK. We are all right. I had what is known as a 'near death experience'

in 2002 when I had the amputation. It was beyond words! No pain, bliss

beyond bliss. I saw my soul illuminated going through the black of space.

The feeling was transcended, first time I felt free!

It certainly takes the fear away! I had one revelation. The 'light' that you

see...is you!



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Hi Den,

Hope I didn't come across as brash or unfreindly, just being a dumb ol' engineeing student. Give me a few years, and I might even be able to look into this.

The fact you've survived West Nile and a heart attack is an accomplishment in itself, so I'll back away. Spread the word!

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Thank you all,

We ALL go to the same place according to Dr. Roy. He read the Gita and many others.

He knew he was dying at the time. My mother died in my arms of heart failure. It

was very peaceful. Don't worry, good things are ahead!


NukeNet Anti-Nuclear Network (nukenet@energyjustice.net)

Please read and circulate widely. The web address to obtain the radioactive

pork report is at the end of the press release. --Marylia Kelley

for further information:

Marylia Kelley, Tri-Valley CAREs, (925) 443-7148

Jackie Cabasso, Western States Legal Foundation, (510) 839-5877

Bob Schaeffer, Alliance for Nuclear Accountability, (239) 395-6773

for immediate release Tuesday, August 16, 2005




As U.S. House and Senate negotiators begin working out details of

the nation's nuclear weapons and nuclear energy spending plan for the

coming year, Tri-Valley CAREs (Communities Against a Radioactive

Environment) and Western States Legal Foundation have endorsed a report

identifying nearly two billion dollars in programs that should be cut by

conferees to enhance national security and protect the environment.

"Top Ten Department of Energy Radioactive Pork Projects in the 2006

Budget" was delivered to Congress today by the Alliance for Nuclear

Accountability (ANA), a network of groups from communities near U.S.

nuclear weapons facilities. The Livermore, California-based Tri-Valley

CAREs and Western States Legal Foundation in Oakland have been ANA member

organizations since 1989.

"This report identifies seven nuclear weapons and three nuclear

energy projects that waste taxpayers' money and escalate, not ameliorate,

the nuclear dangers we face," explained Marylia Kelley, Executive Director

of Tri-Valley CAREs and author of the pork report's chapter on the National

Ignition Facility, which is one of the top ten recommended cuts.

Kelley continued, "The conferees should halt all programs

supporting the research, design, production and testing of new nuclear

weapons as well as those that subsidize the nuclear power industry. Some of

the savings should be used to fund cleanup projects essential to protecting

public health and the environment."

Significant policy differences involving billions of dollars remain

between the House and Senate nuclear spending plans. The House struck all

funding for research into a new nuclear bunker buster slated to be

developed at Livermore Lab and a plutonium bomb plant while significantly

reducing appropriations for new plutonium fuel manufacturing. The Senate

cut money for the National Ignition Facility, a controversial weapons

research facility, and a radioactive waste dump.


The ANA Radioactive Pork report is available online at:


Chapters analyzing each of the proposed cuts are online at:


Marylia Kelley

Executive Director

Tri-Valley CAREs

(Communities Against a Radioactive Environment)

2582 Old First Street

Livermore, CA USA 94551

http://www.trivalleycares.org> - is our web site address. Please visit us


(925) 443-7148 - is our phone

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More outbreaks expected in slow-to-start West Nile season

By Anita Manning, USA TODAY

The West Nile virus season has been milder than it was at this time last year, but scientists say the worst is yet to come.

Mosquitos are most active between dusk and dawn.

Andy Klevorn, Ludington Daily News

"We might be right on the cusp" of outbreaks in several regions of the country, says entomologist Harry Savage of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention division in Fort Collins, Colo.

CDC's tally of 109 cases of West Nile infection nationally does not reflect recently detected cases in several states. In Louisiana, health officials Friday reported 22 new cases, including two deaths. Officials in Illinois, California and South Dakota also have seen new illnesses.

"We're just on a hair trigger here," says Lon Kightlinger, state epidemiologist in South Dakota, where four new cases reported early last week brought the state total this year to 20. "Since then, we've had about a dozen more human cases under investigation," and surveillance has been increased.

"We're investigating (reported cases) as soon as we can and getting information out to the community, so they can know the virus is circulating."


West Nile virus infections this year, and at this time in previous years:

Year Cases No. of states Deaths

2005 109 18 3

2004 406 20 7

2003 44 11 1

Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


(Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *

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Talking about dying and how peaceful it is dont make me feel any better with the news my husband had last week.I once saw a poster and it said the first few seconds of our life's are the most crucial and somebody had written underneath it So are the last few.I think that sums it up .

Regards Pat.

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marcus and Pat,

When it is YOU.....what do odds mean! Meeting Dr. Roy!...what are the odds?

Seeing Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life"....what are the odds? What does it




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Sorry...but I am poor. I went to the only place that had parallel bars but they got

scared and sent me to my doctor. She got scared and called the Fire Dept.

Ambulance, Guess they did not know one could get so weak on West Nile Virus!

The Fire Dept. Ambulance took me to the Mayo Clinic, I had no choice in the

matter, which I understand is second choice!

If you have your own roof, you are doing better than me! It cost me what little

money I have to promote the Roy Process now for some 20 years It is

real I assure you.



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Depleted Uranium is WMD

by Leuren Moret

My grandfather, U.S. Army Col. Edwin Joseph McAllister, was born in Battle Creek in 1895. He does not know that his first grandchild is an international expert on depleted uranium. I have worked in two U.S. nuclear weapons laboratories, and in 1991 I became a whistleblower at the Livermore lab. Depleted uranium is very, very, very nasty stuff:

Depleted uranium (DU) weaponry meets the definition of weapon of mass destruction in two out of three categories under U.S. Federal Code Title 50 Chapter 40 Section 2302.

DU weaponry violates all international treaties and agreements, Hague and Geneva war conventions, the 1925 Geneva gas protocol, U.S. laws and U.S. military law.

Since 1991, the U.S. has released the radioactive atomicity equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs into the global atmosphere. That is 10 times the amount released during atmospheric testing which was the equivalent of 40,000 Hiroshima bombs. The U.S. has permanently contaminated the global atmosphere with radioactive pollution having a half-life of 2.5 billion years.

The U.S. has illegally conducted four nuclear wars in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and twice in Iraq since 1991, calling DU "conventional" weapons when in fact they are nuclear weapons.

DU on the battlefield has three effects on living systems: it is a heavy metal "chemical" poison, a "radioactive" poison and has a "particulate" effect due to the very tiny size of the particles that are 0.1 microns and smaller.

The blueprint for DU weaponry is a 1943 Manhattan Project memo to Gen. L. Groves that recommended development of radioactive materials as poison gas weapons - dirty bombs, dirty missiles and dirty bullets.

DU weapons are very effective kinetic energy penetrators, but even more effective bioweapons since uranium has a strong chemical affinity for phosphate structures concentrated in DNA.

DU is the Trojan Horse of nuclear war - it keeps giving and keeps killing. There is no way to clean it up, and no way to turn it off because it continues to decay into other radioactive isotopes in over 20 steps.

Terry Jemison at the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs stated in August 2004 that over 518,000 Gulf-era veterans (14-year period) are now on medical disability, and that 7,039 were wounded on the battlefield in that same period. Over 500,000 U.S. veterans are homeless.

In some studies of soldiers who had normal babies before the war, 67 percent of the post-war babies are born with severe birth defects - missing brains, eyes, organs, legs and arms, and blood diseases.

In southern Iraq, scientists are reporting five times higher levels of gamma radiation in the air, which increases the radioactive body burden daily of inhabitants. In fact, Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan are uninhabitable.

Cancer starts with one alpha particle under the right conditions. One gram of DU is the size of a period in this sentence and releases 12,000 alpha particles per second.

Before my grandfather died, he told me that his generation had made a mess of this planet. I wonder what he would say to me now I would tell him to see "Beyond Treason" (www.beyondtreason.com), a new documentary about the history of treason by the U.S. government against our own troops: Atomic veterans, MK-Ultra, Agent Orange and DU. After Vietnam, Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. . ." (from Chapter 5 in the "Final Days" by Woodward and Bernstein).

Leuren Moret is an international radiation specialist, with a B.S. degree in geology from University of California at Davis, a M.A. degree in Near Eastern studies from University of California at Berkeley and has done post-graduate work in the geosciences at UC-Davis. She is environmental commissioner for the City of Berkeley, Calif.

© 2005 Battle Creek Enquirer

See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at http://nucnews.net *

(Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *

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(excerpt by Russell Hoffman)

At each step, an "inconsequential" (so they say) loss occurs, which ends up in our air and water, and then in our lungs and in our guts and brains. You are a filter for your environment. If your environment is polluted, YOU will be polluted. Do you feel clean? You aren't.

Your body is already poisoned with billions of radioactive atoms, courtesy of a corrupt and arrogant government and industry. Each individual atomic decay event is always much, much stronger than your own body's chemical and molecular bonds. Each radioactive decay can lead to cancer, leukemia, heart disease, deformities in your children, and a thousand other ailments. Do you feel victimized, or has the odorless, colorless, tasteless, microscopic (and, often, delayed) nature of the assault fooled you? If so, you are not alone.

Are all your trillions of DNA molecules ready to face another day of random assault by nuclear poisons? Are your eggs or sperm defect-free, or are you already "damaged goods," another victim of the nuclear age, incapable of producing healthy offspring? Do you feel abused? You should -- because you ARE being abused by the Nuclear Mafia.

The next accident to befall the nuclear industry -- the next Chernobyl --could happen near YOU. In the past few years, it almost happened in Ohio, California, New York and elsewhere. It could have happened in Minnesota, where for 30 years the "Emergency Core Cooling System" (ECCS) at the Monticello nuclear power plant was unavailable due to improper installation. (Obviously, it was never tested.) Do you feel lucky? You

have been -- so far.

We need to switch completely away from nuclear power and start utilizing renewable energy solutions, which means a COMBINATION of wind, wave, tide, solar, biomass, geothermal, hydro, space-based mirrors, etc..

There are many clean options -- and we need to choose ALL of them. Do you think we can wait forever? Guess again.

Russell D. Hoffman

Concerned Citizen

Carlsbad, CA

The author has studied nuclear power for more than 30 years. His essays have been published around the world.


POISON FIRE USA: An animated history of major nuclear activities in the continental United States:


How does a nuclear power plant work? Animations of PWRs and



Internet Glossary of Nuclear Terminology / "The Demon Hot Atom":


List of every nuclear power plant in America, with history, activist orgs, specs, etc.:




STOP CASSINI web site:




or try:


List of ~300 books and videos about nuclear issues in my collection (donations welcome!):


Learn about The Effects of Nuclear War here (written with Pamela



* See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107) *

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See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at -

http://nucnews.net (Posted for educational and research

Purpoes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107).

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Dear all,

Can't fool 'Mother Nature' forever! The 'Bill' comes due at some point!


ajc.com > Opinion

Nuclear Plants Safe? Claim is Unsound


Published on: 11/24/05

Just as U.S. Sen. Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) was telling Georgians in a Nov. 14 Atlanta Journal-Constitution opinion column that "nuclear power plants have a sound safety record," Southern Co.'s Edwin I. Hatch nuclear plant along the Altamaha River near Baxley was reporting the loss of 68 inches of highly irradiated nuclear fuel.

As highly radioactive waste, this irradiated or "spent" nuclear fuel is millions of times more radioactive than new fuel. Hatch says the missing fuel is either at the bottom of the fuel pool or it was mistakenly shipped out with radioactive scrap regularly collected by the filters. The problem? There is no facility in the United States licensed to accept commercial irradiated reactor fuel. The containers that it was shipped out in are said to be safe for hundreds of years. The half life of irradiated nuclear fuel exceeds a million years. You do the math.

Hatch's safety record is hardly "sound." In 1984, cracks in the containment system were discovered. Hatch is also on record for one of the largest releases of radioactive water into our environment. In 1986, human error and equipment failure led to the release of 84,000 gallons of radioactive water from Hatch into a wetlands area on plant property, only a few hundred yards from the Altamaha. Both the Hatch and Vogtle plants have had ongoing worker safety violations.

But never mind that, says Frist. Nuclear power is safe. Is it safe from terrorist attack? Not according to the FBI director who testified to Congress in February.

In 1986, a member of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission testified to Congress that he expected a core meltdown to happen within 20 years. It sounds as if we could be overdue. Accidents? Heck, says Frist, Three Mile Island was no big deal. And Chernobyl? According to Frist it only killed "scores of people and rendered about 20 square miles of land uninhabitable."

Frist fails to say anything about the global fallout, which touched 3 billion people worldwide, or about how incidents of thyroid cancer in neighboring Belarus are 100 times higher than before the accident. "Chernobyl heart" is a condition found in children from the region who develop holes in their hearts and die without surgery. Thousands of children each year are on the waiting lists, but only a few hundred receive treatment.

Anyone who raises concerns about nuclear power safety gets branded as a fearmonger. Were the writers at the Times-Picayune labeled that when as early as 1998 they predicted that a Category 3 hurricane could breach the levees and flood New Orleans? But even when the "fearmongers" turn out to be right, as they did in Louisiana, why should we worry? Haven't we all seen how swiftly and judiciously the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Department of Homeland Security respond to catastrophe?

Frist wants Georgia to embrace building nuclear reactors. I am told Frist is a doctor. What kind of doctor would tell Georgians that their nuclear plants have a "sound safety record" when the facts say otherwise? Only a spin doctor.


U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney is a Democrat representing Georgia's 4th Congressional District.

Find this article at:


* See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at :

http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research

purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107).

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“There was a veritable campaign of lies instigated by the

state in order to protect the image of the French nuclear


France Hid Deadly Chernobyl Details — Report

Created: 16.12.2005 MosNews


The French authorities deliberately suppressed information

about the spread of radioactive fallout from the May 1986

Chernobyl disaster over France, according to details of an

experts’ report leaked on Thursday.>

Two independent physicists say in the report that the

state-run Central Service for Protection against Radioactive

Rays (SCPRI) knew of high levels of contamination in Corsica

and southeastern France but kept the details under wraps,

the AFP reported.

The study was commissioned by magistrate Marie-Odile

Bertella-Geffroy, who since 2001 has been examining

allegations that the atomic cloud from Chernobyl caused a

surge in cases of thyroid cancer in parts of France. This

week Bertella-Geffroy handed over the report — originally

completed in March — to civil plaintiffs in the case, who

passed details to AFP.

“Now we have proof that there was a breakdown in the system.

So now the judicial case will succeed — I can’t see how it

can do otherwise,” said Chantal Hoir, president of the

French Association of Victims of Thyroid Cancer.

The report states that the SCPRI issued imprecise maps that

concealed the high levels of fallout in certain areas,

according to sources who saw the document. It also states

that with full information health authorities could have

taken targeted steps to reduce the exposure of vulnerable

people such as children and pregnant mothers.

It was the first time an independent study gave substance to

long-standing accusations from anti-nuclear groups that the

French government deliberately played down the risk posed by

the nuclear cloud.

“There was a veritable campaign of lies instigated by the

state in order to protect the image of the French nuclear

industry,” said the campaigning organization Sortir du

Nucleaire (Get Out of Nuclear Power), welcoming details of

the report. “As in other European countries, people should

have been told not to eat fresh vegetables and milk

products, which absorb most radioactivity, or to let their

children play in sand-pits and so on,” it said.

Earlier this year anti-nuclear campaigners demanded that

SCPRI’s director at the time of the disaster, Pierre

Pellerin, be placed under judicial investigation in the

case. However scientific opinion remains deeply divided,

with several renowned physicists sending an open letter to

President Jacques Chirac in June commending Pellerin for not

giving way to panic in his handling of the crisis.

In April, France’s high court of appeal confirmed a

conviction for libel against leading Green party deputy Noel

Mamere, who wrongfully accused Pellerin of claiming that the

Chernobyl nuclear cloud stopped at the French border.

Doctors also question the supposed link between Chernobyl

and the rise in thyroid cancer, a trend which began in the



Posted for educational and research purposes only,

- in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 -

NucNews Links and Expanded Archives - http://nucnews.net

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NukeNet Anti-Nuclear Network (nukenet@energyjustice.net)

|From: "Melissa Kemp, Public Citizen" <mkemp@citizen.org>

December 19, 2005

Victory: Congress Set to Approve Provision That Would Slow Private

Fuel Storage Proposal And Designate Wilderness!

Today's a day to celebrate! Thanks to an outpouring of phone calls,

emails, letters, and lobby visits, Congress is poised to pass a

provision in the Defense Authorization Bill that would protect nearly

100,000 acres of public land as wilderness, and interfere with the

dangerous and unnecessary Private Fuel Storage (PFS) proposal to

build an "interim" radioactive waste dump in Utah. The overall bill

was approved by the House this morning, and is expected to be passed

by the Senate sometime later this week. Thanks to everyone that made

phone calls last week to members of the House-Senate Conference

Committee to get this provision included in the final bill!

The PFS proposal is unnecessary and dangerous, and would not help

solve the nation's nuclear waste problem. In fact, corroborating

these concerns last week, three of the eight utilities involved in

PFS - XCEL Energy (the majority-stockholder in PFS), Southern

Company, and Florida Power & Light - withdrew their support for the

project. Southern Company withdrew completely from the consortium,

while XCEL and FP&L both placed moratoriums on funding.

These are important victories for stopping the dumping of radioactive

waste in Utah, and for bringing more attention to the problems with

radioactive waste generally.

Thank you for all your help!

If you have questions, comments, or a response to this email, please

contact Melissa Kemp at mkemp@citizen.org.

Mike Ewall

Energy Justice Network




Subscribe/Unsubscribe Here: http://www.energyjustice.net/nukenet/

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John Busby - Australian News Opinion Reply

Nuclear power: no solution to climate change

By Jim Green - posted Tuesday, 6 December 2005



There is no "nuclear option", because the world is running out of economically-mined uranium and the secondary supplies of ex-weapons highly enriched uranium (HEU), re-worked mine tailings, inventories and a modicum of MOX are expected to be exhausted in ten years or so.

This is so much a crisis for the nuclear industry that it has anguished over it in the last three annual symposiums of the World Nuclear Association in London. Many nuclear stations will run out of fuel once the 40% of the world's supply from secondary sources declines.

Primary mining supplies provide only 60% of the demand and even this level of supply requires a constant location and opening of new mines as the production in the existing mines reaches its "Hubbert" peak and then declines.

There could be no better illustration of this dilemma than the proposals to expand Olympic Dam mine in South Australia by digging a hole 3km x 3km x 1km to extract copper, gold and uranium. BHP Billiton has initiated a feasibility study, but have already stated that without the copper, the grade of uranium ore at only 0.04% is insufficiently high to warrant a go-ahead without the revenue from the copper.

Uranium is mined for the energy it produces in a subsequent nuclear fuel cycle, but if the diesel and electricity used to excavate such an enormous hole and mill the lean ore exceeds that produced in the fuel cycle what is the point? The Olympic Dam expansion requires desalinated water supply and pipeline, a rail connection and there is a suggestion of an airport. The initial energy input is unlikely to provide a decent energy return, certainly not if world recession lowers the price of copper.

The proponents of the "nuclear option" should state where they imagine the world's uranium supply would come from, especially if Australia retained its uranium for its own fleet.

Posted by John Busby, Wednesday, 7 December 2005 3:32:56 AM


anti-green quotes UIC paper 75, but nothing could undermine the case for nuclear power more!

It gives the concentration of uranium in seawater as 0.003 parts per million, so with an optimistic yield of say 50% it would require the processing of 1,000,000 x 2/0.003 = 667 million cubic metres of seawater to obtain 1 tonne of uranium with huge pumping energy.

UIC75 gives the average of uranium concentration in the earth's crust as 2.8 ppm (0.00028 %), so with a ratio to overburden to ore of 3:1 and a yield of 10% it would take the mining and milling of 1,000,000 x 10 x 3/2.8 = 10.7 million tonnes of rock to get 1 tonne of uranium. At the mine and mill the principle fuel is diesel, so as fossil fuels get scarcer the level of extraction energy rules.

UIC75 argues that a rise in the price of uranium could be readily carried in the price of electricity, but the killer factor is the enormous increase in the energy needed to extract the uranium from low concentration resources. If the input energy in the overall nuclear fuel cycle exceeds the electrical energy obtained therefrom, the entire operation is pointless. Only the limited high grade reserves in Canada give an adequate energy gain, but to maintain its current production requires continuous prospecting and opening of new mines, the finding of which cannot be guaranteed.

UIC75 mentions military warheads, but the supply of ex-weapons HEU is running out. It admits that thorium is not in commercial use, nor is there a commercially available fast breeder reactor.

anti-green mentions the recent WNA paper on "The new economics of nuclear power". It needs new economics because the old ones have failed. There is no margin to pay for waste treatment. In the USA spent fuel remains on site at 72 of the 100+ power stations which has to be kept stirred and cooled in ponds to avoid a melt down.

anti-green will need better than UIC75 to convince me that nuclear power is viable.

Posted by John Busby, Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:00:19 AM


* See also: NucNews Links and Archives (by date) at :

http://nucnews.net * (Posted for educational and research

purposes only, in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107).


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At my last check this topic has had 1362 views.

Ok you've spread the word, more people now know about the ROY process than before.

"Nothing else matters" --- OK maybe not -- but personally my eyes hurt trying to read all this and I fell asleep and banged my head on my computor desk --- now I have a head ache -- that matters to me.

I will not be reading any more of this.

Best of luck with your cause -- oh dear I'm drifting off again!!

Best Regards


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