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Heather Mills - Amputee Forum
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New Devotee Site

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As a new member of this forum and not yet an amputee, I was frankly astounded to have found so much information of such high quality, covering such a vast range of topics. Something as hugely beneficial as this is what the Internet should be for, and I think it should be as accessible as possible, and therefore not be members-only.

However, even in a small town we must still take elementary precautions with our well-being, and basic Internet-use precautions apply here as much as anywhere else, such as not providing information on the forum that you don't want the whole world to know - emails and PMs are for confidential stuff.

As regards the inevitable lurkers, I think the best thing that the forum can do is lead by example; I'm an IT consultant, and I've worked with many different kinds of computer users, and I think it's true to say that many of them (particularly the younger ones) have never been exposed to a site that is as selfless, generous, and supportive as this one. I like to think that just witnessing how things should be done would be good for them, whilst, of course, still letting them know that nonsense is not to be tolerated.

Roz. :)

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Well said, Roz - I think this forums great too! :)

They give good advice to school children in the UK - KidsSmart - which I know is 'a bit basic', but I think it's sound advice!

Lizzie :)

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I think the best thing that the forum can do is lead by example; I'm an IT consultant

Roz, I hope you don't work for VT Group IT or my opinion of you will go down drastically. :P

Examples from our workplace:

Telephone conversation to IT support - "our e-mail server has gone down"

Reply from IT - "Please note that IT support should be contacted by e-mail"

From our local IT man to IT Server Support - "We are having problems accessing the server"

Reply - "Standby while we put you through to Desktop Support"

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, yes, Muz - been there, experienced that, got the T-shirt, which is why I went self-employed!

One of my oldest friends is deputy director of IT at a large university, and I find myself frequently invoking his maxim:

"To err is human; to really screw things up takes a computer!"

Combine daft computer problems with badly-trained support staff and the result would be comical, if it weren't so bad for the blood-pressure!

Roz :)

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:unsure: I just can not believe my eyes!!! You all giving the devotees all your attention !!!

This ugly topic was the cause of a big argument that ended up in a great number of members leaving this site or just stopping giving their good advices. If you go back, you see lots of smart amputees that just quietly drifted away. Please don't give the devotees any more gratification.. :rolleyes:

Long time ago, just before the big, ugly topic of devotee came up. I had never heard this word before, I didn't know about them..I received an emails from someone who I assumed was from this site. He sounded like someone really nice and so on He was emailing me at least once a day... Once I asked him, what kind of amputation he had, he replyed he did have any..It got me confused, at first ,then real mad. I asked him how the hell he knew so much about me etc.. he said he read what I wrote on this very site and asked how come I never posted a picture of myself. . I am not rude but I enjoy never giving any good answer to his dumb questions like, how I am doing on the prosthetics field, how long is my stump, how I handle pain, how this how that I just said fine to his question, nothing else and change the subject. Once I told him I didn't like talking about it to people who are not in the same level as I. He lost interest and gave it up

Dea

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Here is a link to an article written by one of my FAVOURITE amputee writers. 

Christ I don't know what to say, the lady has covered all angles superbly written. I have witnessed the amp hangers on at football tournaments, not really understanding their interest I think I’m on a site in Germany.

This whole subject baffles me, I feel more for the girls I cannot believe anyone gets off on looking at this old dinosaur.

I hope the moderators are vigilant!

Is this the time to lose my faith in human nature?

Sad very very sad

:angry:

PJ

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Hey, all. I've been an amputee for 34 years now (right forequarter--arm, shoulder, collar bone & shoulder blade), and never thought of myself as being that much different from anyone else. After all, I've pretty much had a normal life. About nine months ago I decided to join my first online dating site. Posted a profile, no pic, and didn't mention the fact that I was an amputee--heck, it's just not that big a part of my life, so why emphasize it?

Anyhow, at some point the subject will come up in conversation, and most fellows were not fazed (as I expected). But then, with the space of a week, I was rejected by TWO guys with whom I had built online relationships--suddenly and completely--as soon as I mentioned I was an amputee. What a stunner! That hurt my feelings, and made me realize that people DO look at amputees differently... OUCH! Still reeling from the rejection, and feeling for the first time in my life like "damaged goods", I decided to join a disabled dating website. I knew I would be contacted by devs, and I was (boy, I tell ya, I was the belle of the ball!). Really boosted my ego.

On the whole, I have found devs to be an intelligent, clever, articulate, RESPECTFUL lot. Are they all? No. Are all amputees intelligent, clever, articulate & respectful? No. Are some devs jerks? Yes--I have found about the same percentage of devs that are jerks, as men in general. So I just exercise the same caution as I would in meeting anyone on the 'net (or in person, for that matter).

QUESTION: So, why is it that we think it's socially acceptable behavior to be repulsed by someone with a physical defect, but it's depraved to be attracted to someone for the same reason?

Is it because we think less of ourselves for our missing limbs, and therefore find it easier to accept behavior that supports our own views of ourselves? I say we start calling the jerks that dump us because we have less than the full complement of limbs the "sick puppies", "freakin weirdos" & "wackos" (IMHO).

Helen

Houston, Texas, USA

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Me again. Just wanted to add that I only found out about devs about 6 months ago, after being an amputee for more than 3 decades. Since then, however, I have made up for lost time! I joined several Yahoo discussion groups whose focus is the devotee attraction, and through those I have learned a lot about the subject. I would like to share with you a post from one of those groups, with the author's permission. Jim (dev) & Jeri (amp) are a couple from Houston who met at a social function designed to bring amputees and devotees together. Here's a recent post from Jim (edited by me to remove references to other posts not copied here):

Were you aware that some men like thin women? Blonds? Tall? Big boobs? Devs are no different. I like Jeri and she pretty much fits the mold of petite blond with moderate boobs. She is also a LAK with a fairly long stump and generally uses forearm crutches.

All of this is enough for me to cross a room and say hello. If she is reasonably intelligent, I'd buy her a drink. This is attraction.

But I married Jeri because we have similar tastes, attitudes toward money, people and politics. Because we were similar in age and feeling the same way about it. Because she is kind, honest and forgiving. Because she lights up when she smiles and I can feel the warmth all the way to my toes. If my toes return to normal, our relationship might slow down, but in 8 years, they haven't. Her hand fits perfectly in mine. At night, we often lie in bed and hold hands. It is the best part of the day.

The fact that my toes tingle and her hand fits mine, has nothing to do with how many legs she has.

Other men would feel different. Some would be repelled by the lack of leg, some would prefer redheads, but that's fine, they have no idea what they are missing.

And in a later post...

I had some further thoughts later on, while Jeri and I were lying side by side.

Jeri makes me feel whole. As a dev, I always felt that there was something wrong with me. Jeri accepts the fact that I am a dev. On the other hand, I accept that she is an amputee. Even though I'm retired and she is still working, I get up with her every morning, make coffee and carry her bags to the car and see her off down the driveway. It is our morning togetherness. Now, she is perfectly capable of going to work on her own, and some mornings I am only marginally capable of remembering my name, but we do this anyway.

As a dev, I'm aware of her limitations, most of the time. You should be aware of that, because some of your good friends probably forget that you only have one leg, from time to time. A good friend of Jeri's told her to just put one foot on the brake and the other on the clutch when starting a stick shift. Of course, she stopped and then said "Oh, but you only have one leg." She related to Jeri as a person, not a one-legged woman.

Some devs consider you as "a life support system for a stump". Others would see a good looking woman who has one leg. Don't be surprised, you can substitue breasts for leg and find the same attitudes.

As a dev, I accept Jeri's one leg. She accepts my attraction. It works for us because we both know that there is much more to life. In some cases this would not be true. Some devs are nearly totally fixated on the stump. Some amputees are totally fixated on appearing "normal". In either case, a relationship like ours would probably not work.

When Jeri says she'd like to use the wheelchair in Walmart, because she is worried about slipping and falling, I'm OK with that. When she decides to run into Sally's beauty shop on her crutches, I'm fine with that too. As she often tells me she is the amputee, and she will do what works best for her. I encourage crutches, because it gives her more exercise, and the docs tell her to get exercise to keep her blood pressure down. Crutches are great for that, because they burn about 3 times the energy of normal walking.

OK, it is early here, and I've only had two cups of coffee and my mind is wandering. I'll leave it at that. Amps and devs are people.

Jim

I've had dinner with Jim & Jeri a couple of times, and we should all be so lucky to be in such a relationship (disabled or not). We all know men who have exhibited offensive behavior, but that doesn't mean we are going to stop associating with ALL men because of it... right? Please don't judge all devs by the actions of a few.

BTW--There are female devs, too, so don't you male amps feel left out!

Helen

Houston, Texas, USA

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Just felt I had to add my 2p worth here. I am an amputee as you all know - both feet/ankles and a bit more - HOWEVER, when I was first admited to rehab in UK after coming out of Iraq - my friends Suzy & John - found this site and became "posters" to glean information to help me. Does that make Suzy a dev? John is an amputee - lost hand above wristwatch - that is by the by Suzy's main intention was not to help John but to help me by asking the questions I so dealy wanted answered but was afraid to ask of the hospital. So, anonymously on here, she asked and got the ansers for me. Yes, she got help for John too, but primarily her main purpose was in trying to keep me sane.

Please dont shut off these boards just because of the odd "weirdo." They exist everywhere. Anyway, Johnny asks for a "valid email" when you register as we had to re-register recently (having fogotten the password).

I read the posting from the folk in Texas and found it quite touching. That is the true meaning of "devotion" in my opinion. I am just starting to get around now and find that the oppsoite sex treat me quite differently. So, perhaps I could be a candidate for a "dev."

My last female admirer fell in love with my "uniform" before the man - maybe I should look her up again!!!

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One more thought...

I've read a lot of vicious commentary about devs in the above thread, but the only example of a real experience with a dev is from Lynne, who started the topic. Her negative experience was being invited to join a devotee site 3 times. OK, she didn't like it, but we've all received unsolicited email from unwanted sources. I just delete them. Still, she related a real experience--so it counts. What came after was just a bunch of venom-spitting, with no basis in real life experiences with devs.

I think we need to be cautious about starting rumors or fanning the flames when we base the discussion on imaginary stories. If someone has had a legitimate negative experience with a dev, let them post it here, and then we can all respond with the appropriate level of disgust. But until then, please be aware that y'all are jumping on the dev-bashing bandwagon, without having heard of any real cases of abuse. There ARE some devs who behave badly, but to paint the entire group with horns and a tail seems somewhat unfair. Really, you guys... "sadoooos", "sick puppies", "freakin weirdos"... just for sending an invitation?

Keep in mind that, even on this site, HMM has felt the need to defend herself against some rather nasty rumors. Please be mindful of your posts and base them on facts. OK, I've said my piece.

Helen

Houston, Texas, USA

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This needs to stop now. I won't be returning to this thread.

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While we're at it can the title of the thread be changed as I can see it will be a magnet for "ordinary people" who are searching for a certain subject on the net to feed their "normal" tastes. <_<

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'This needs to stop now. I won't be returning to this thread. ' Did somebody call the forum police :lol: it's the female devs I cant understand...why ? I can tell you that females who do dev type art, have had something very nasty happen to them in the past (without exception) that makes them cut the limbs off their portrayed subjects, I am not sure what motivates the male dev........

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it's the female devs I cant understand...why ? I can tell you that females who do dev type art, have had something very nasty happen to them in the past (without exception) that makes them cut the limbs off their portrayed subjects

Oneleggedtog, what makes you say this? That's a rather broad brush you use...

I'm a member of a well-run Yahoo discussion group for Female Admirers and Amputee Men (though I'm neither), where there's active discussion of the devotee attraction and the reasons for it. Can't say as I've read a single post blaming something nasty in a dev's past that has led her to be attracted to men who are missing limbs.

Could you elaborate, please? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point.

Helen

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I said & meant those that depict themselves & others in their art with missing limbs - have mental issues. And I have found no exception to that in my dealings with such people.

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Wow so many opinions. I think it was Jim that was good enough to post the definition of devotee vs deviant. Thankyou.

Pity Cat didn't explain her reasons for now ignoring this post because I was confused but luckily I got to ask her why :D

I don't know Helen's motive for joining just for joining just to join this thread but I like to think the best of all people until they prove me wrong.

I get scared when people are judgemental of others and use harsh labels but i kinda understand where you are coming from, being a large lady I would be disgusted by people who only wanted to know me because I am fat (ohh yes they are out there), but I guess that is still better than those who are disgusted by my fatness.

In my opinion we all have quirks, attractions, fetishes and people we admire & are inspired by. Quirks and fetishes should be discouraged at sites like this and kept to sites where 'quirker' & 'quirkee' are both willing partipants. Fetishes should be kept private between willing participants.

I would like to think that some devotees are guenuine in the fact that they are not 'turned on' by differences but are inspired by the people who overcome these difficulties and generally interested in how they acheive that.

just remember folk ... this is the internet. i have a seperate email addy for my internet & group activities and only give out my home ISP to known friends

Muchly

wonder if cat will reneg & come to see what I posted :P

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probly :lol:

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I don't know Helen's motive for joining just for joining just to join this thread but I like to think the best of all people until they prove me wrong.

You're right, Muchly, to wonder why I joined this forum. I am an active participant in other amputee forums & discussion groups, and that's how I heard about this thread. When I read it for myself I was stunned because it was SO one-sided and not based on anyone's actual negative experiences with devs. Except Lynne's... but then the thread took on a (pretty ugly) life of its own.

I usually observe a new group before I jump in with MHO. However, in this case, I simply couldn't believe what I was reading, so I contributed to this thread right away. Plus it took 5 days (over New Year's weekend) for the moderators to approve my membership, so I did get in a little reading time.

I apologize for not introducing myself first, so I'll just pop over to the New Member section and take care of that right now.

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'I knew I would be contacted by devs, and I was (boy, I tell ya, I was the belle of the ball!). Really boosted my ego.'

that says it all Helen, you wanted some attention & you got it from devs - are you saying that the devs actively joined the 'disabled' dating site to pick up amps ?? Come on girl the alarm bells must be ringing by now.......

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But Helen. . .

The devs are doing the same thing in reverse.

You bet they are (and God bless 'em)! Most human beings would not even date someone at all unless there was some sort of physical attraction first. It's shallow, but that's we way we are. Criteria such as facial features, body type, hair color/length, height, weight, skin color, etc. Devs just happen to have one unconventional trait on the list--a missing limb. It lifts my spirits to find there are people who consider it an asset that I only have one arm, rather than a liability.

Now that we're interested based on each other's physical appearance, we move on to how well our potential mates meet criteria group #2: religion, politics, family, finances, job stability, etc. If there are not enough other elements of attraction, the relationship goes nowhere.

Devs are no different than the rest of us--they're looking for a special combination of traits in a potential mate. And like the rest of us, they have turn over a lot of rocks to find the right partner.

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that says it all Helen, you wanted some attention & you got it from devs - are you saying that the devs actively joined the 'disabled' dating site to pick up amps ?? Come on girl the alarm bells must be ringing by now.......

You betcha! I surely did want to make contact with men who not only didn't care that I was an amputee, but even considered it a plus! It was like dropping my line into a stocked pond.

Heck yes, I knew there would be devs there--I assumed that was the whole point of disabled dating sites. That's why they have a category for non-disabled members--Helllooooo! And, it did not escape my attention that I got to join for free and the ABs had to pay. The devs are the bread and butter of these sites. It's kinda like Ladies Drink Free night at the local bar--the ladies aren't just going for the free booze, they expect to find men there. And they do.

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well lets hope you are so enthusiastic when you find details of your relationship & possibly pics - posted on the various dev websites for other devs to enjoy.......

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well lets hope you are so enthusiastic when you find details of your relationship & possibly pics - posted on the various dev websites for other devs to enjoy.......

Thank you for your cautionary words, oneleggedtog. The first question I posed on the first devotee discussion group I joined was whether there was a list somewhere of the "bad" devs. Didn't want to send a pic and then have it show up all over the Internet, you know.

The responses I received said to just take normal precautions. Rule of thumb--don't send anyone a picture you wouldn't want to see plastered all over the Internet. This is, of course, the same advice one would give to anyone posting or emailing a picture of themselves (it's not particular to devs).

They also recommended getting to know someone first before giving them my last name, address or phone #. Again, good general advice. I'm getting to be a pretty good Internet detective. Once I obtained certain information from the devs directly, I have been able to independently confirm that they are 1) a university research engineer, 2) an airline pilot, and 3) a city council member. (This may be more difficult to do with non-professionals, however.) They're in more of a position of risk than I am, now that I have their employer's contact info. I also verify that they live where they say they live. Beyond that, you just have to trust them--same as anyone else you meet online (or in person, for that matter).

Another cool trick I learned was to google their username. If they use it on the dating site, they may use it elsewhere. This way you can find postings they may have made on discussion forums on a variety of topics, and gain insight into the way they think. If you're lucky, you'll be able to find out how they talk about lady amps when they think they're just talking to other devs.

As far as details of encounters showing up, well, I'll just have to accept that risk. But keep in mind, this could happen to anyone, not just amps dating devs. There are bad apples in every barrel--we have to do the best we can to figure out who's who. But I can't live my life in a prison for fear that someone might share a photo I sent of myself, fully clothed, with empty sleeve clearly visible. Some consider this "dev porn", but to me it's just a picture that I wouldn't mind being printed in the Houston Chronicle.

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Devs are no different than the rest of us--they're looking for a special combination of traits in a potential mate.

A pedophile could use the same reasoning

Well yes, I'm sure criminals of all kinds have favorite victim profiles. What's your point? Here's mine:

NON-DEV DATING CRTIERIA

Good - SWF, long blond hair, blue eyes, pretty face, 5'3", 100 lbs dripping wet.

Better - All of the above, plus she's intelligent, kind, and has a good career.

Best - All of the above, plus her daddy owns an oil well.

Pass - All of the above, plus she's SAK.

DEVOTEE DATING CRITERIA

Good - SWF, long blond hair, blue eyes, pretty face, 5'3", 100 lbs dripping wet.

Better - All of the above, plus she's intelligent, kind, and has a good career.

Best - All of the above, plus she's SAK.

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