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Ally

First time using a liner

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Hello everyone - I hope somebody can shed some light on this for me and make me feel a bit better about this.

I have always used a total contact suction socket - no liner.

Now, for the first time in 10 years, I am a woman with a liner, and theoretically it should be more comfortable and better. Shouldn't it??

Here's my problem. Which may be two-fold, in that I am trying a new socket design as well.

The liner is making it hard for me to feel if I am in the socket properly. I now have a liner with 2mm of silicone buffering. Now, it could be the MAS socket, because the trim lines in back and front are quite low. But I'm not sure. I also feel that perhaps I'm not getting right in because I am so used to pulling my leg in with a kite - and that gets you RIGHT in. With the liner, I have to push in, and it feels strange.

The liner and socket feel tight. Now, it could be just the MAS that is differently shaped that is making me feel like that, because my prosthetist and I took a CT scan of my leg, so we know exactly the 'lay of the land' when it comes to the residual limb. Marco is pretty sure that it's not too small, and also, when I doff the leg, there aren't any angry red patches (or so few that they don't even count).

Has anyone else changed over to a liner and felt a bit weird and unsure like me?

I heard such great things about liners, and now I'm not so sure. If it's a case of just pushing through for a week or so to get used to it, I am prepared to do it.

Is it normal to battle like this - like getting the feeling that you aren't quite all the way in? I sink as far as I am going to, but the bits of skin at the top of the socket feel like they should be 'pulled' in a bit more as well.....

Hope this makes sense and someone has something positive to say....

thanks

Ally

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Hi Ally

It does feel a bit strange when you first try a silicon liner - there's more cushioning but slightly less sensation, it's a very snug fit & it feels like the liner is a bit damp when you first put it on.

I wouldn't worry about the skin too much (unless it's flabby ;)), as I think you're supposed to have more exposed skin with the MAS, aren't you? From what you said, it sounds as though you're having more problems with the socket design than you are with the liner - that is, unless you're getting too much pistoning. :o

Assuming you're getting little or no pistoning, I should imagine that it's just a case of getting used to it, Ally. The good news is that it doesn't take too long. :)

Lizzie

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Hi Lizzie

Yip, you described it exactly. Snug, very little sensation....

Marcus told me about pistoning once, and although I never had that before (I think), i don't think I'm doing that now with the liner (kinda like milking a cow, right :P ?)

Flab? Me? :o Hehehehe, well, not too much I guess..... But it does feel odd not to have everything (including half my butt) pulled into the socket.

Perhaps you are right - I must just get used to it.

I'll soldier on.....

Thanks again,

Ally

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Ally I have never swapped it's all I have known, but they are very stiff to begin with and each time I get a new one I kinda freak. They do loosen up a bit and become a little softer-hence you can get them on easier and go in deeper. Whenever I start to use a newby I normally need to take it off after about an hour and redon. I then find the feedback to be better. It might even be worth your while getting some gel to make it a little eaiser around the top-hence not pull on the skin so much.

Mel.

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Hi Ally

i started off with a suction socket, then when i needed a new socket i thought i would try a liner and pin-lock - i hated it :angry: , just like you i lost all sensation that i used to control the socket, it used to take me 15-20mins to put the leg on, i hated the heat it generated and never got used to it so i went back to a suction socket. with my suction socket i "feel" the socket if you get my meaning, wearing the liner was like wearing wellies in bed :lol:

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Hi Alley:

Thought I would add my few comments here. I have been in liners with a pin locking system from the beginning so I have no other personal reference. Whether it was due to newly arranged skin, effects of the hospital, the drugs or whatever, I have lived through the hassles of a liner. I have learned which direction to heave on my simulated ankles to correct the spin of the leg etc, and I have learned the few tricks that work for me to eliminate the blisters resulting from skin shear.

I have seen others who were in suction sockets where they lube themselves ( no thanks) or have to pull themselves into a socket using some bandage device (no thanks).

Today, I am in the final stages of getting a new set of legs using the Ossur seal in liner. They will be the best I have had to date…………no toe in……knees that look a little more like human knees……….no more locked up pin scenarios….etc. Other than that, the liners are still liners so some of the hassles will remain.

As such, here are a few things that I have learned about liners:

•Don’t bother buying a stand to dry a liner out with after washing it. Use a wine bottle instead………….its more fun when empty.

•As an aka, be aware of how high up the liner actually is going. Too low, you lose skin contact……….too high, it may be interfering with, in your case, your “ear”………..in my case, what I call the shelf………not to mention other remaining human parts!!!

•Ya, they need to be cleaned but not as regularly as they say. However, a newly washed liner does “feel” better (Muz…take note!!!)

•The rest of you sweats more as your body adjusts to the loss of sweat area otherwise.

•You can still “twiddle” inside a liner.

•WHEN you start to have issues where the liner’s edge meets your skin, use a bit of mineral oil to the one (1) inch mark of the liner to eliminate any skin shear.

ED

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in my case, what I call the shelf………not to mention other remaining human parts!!!

I have to agree with Ed, I have both sockets with liners and a suction leg. The protection and suspension you get from liners far surpasses a suction leg. It allows hours of usage without the blisters etc.

As Ed has mentioned human biology has to be considered when installing stumps!

PJ :)

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LOL - thanks everyone. Much appreciated.

Now for my next question.....

The liner was too long, so the prost cut it off to be in line with the top of the socket.

I have noticed, after only a week of use, that the outside material stuff is fraying. At this rate the outside of the liner will be completely frayed away in 6 months, leaving only the exposed silicone. How can this be??

I remember using clear nail varnish to stop ladders or runs in stockings (eww, can't believe I wore them). Is there something that would stop this madly expensive liner fraying away to nothing?

Ally

PS : Ed - I adore the wine bottle drier - I am going to start a collection this evening ;)

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Ally

I have just switched over from a total suction to the osssur seal in system. Like you I have the same feelings and I just do not feel I have as much control of the leg. The liner does not bottom out properlly and it can lose suction when I sit down. It takes quite a while to put on compared to the standard suction system. In the next week I have to choose to stay with the liner or go back to the the regular suction and at the moment the standard suction looks to be the winner since the liner seems to add to problems and I do not see the advantages of comfort etc. that I expected.

Dave

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Hi Ally,

Re: the fraying business - my liner has also been cut at the top and frayed. It does not seem to be getting any worse though, and i have had the present one since the beginning of september, so I don't think you will have any issues. It is probably just the calming down period.

Fiona x

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I agree, Fiona.

Also, the Alpha liners all come with their own sachet of 'super glue', which could used to repair the frayed edges.

Lizzie :)

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I use alpha liners and mine have never frayed. I cut them a few inches above the top of my socket. But I am bk. I guess if you're ak you can't do that?

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I don't think so - mine is cut a few mm's above the top of the socket. Other people have said that the fraying doesn't really effect the use of the liner. However, I'm a bit worried that people are saying that their liners only last about a year. I was expected at least a couple more than that - they're so expensive. Ah well, guess I will have to wait and see.

Thanks everyone,

Ally

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Ally

My proths found a great way on helping to stop fraying or tearing, by cutting the liners using crimping or serrated shears! This has really helped my silicon liners.

PJ :)

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Yep mine are cut with pinking shears as well and they fray like crazy. In fact my oldest one (just over 6 months) is frayed more than half way down. Same thing used to happen with the linr for the pin system too. Ally I've never worried about it, just keep, washing it & putting it on like it's exactly the same-hasn't changed the liner or made any difference at all.

Mel.

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Hi all

I've always had a Ossur comfort liner because of my skin grafts all over the front of my stump. This pinking shears thing must be part of the pros.training because mine is cut like that too. (At least its more decorative and possibly will cause less irritation to the skin than a straight cut edge).To stop the fraying you can use a thin cotton sock if your socket is not too tight. My pros has put a thin soft leather coating, glued onto the top third of my socket. Seems to stop the fraying and is very comfortable and also provides a little "grip" to help stop rotation.

Hope this helps

Regards John

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In the instructions for Ossur liners it mentions that they should be cut with a wavy edge. Pinking shears might be a bit too extreme. I'm not sure if this is to reduce fraying or whether it helps stop chafing on your skin. Any ideas, Marcus?

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Hi Ally:

As you probably know I have been a LAK for 50 years. Last year with a new leg they "talked me into trying a "Silicone liner". Wow I hated it. ( at first it was great, but about the 3rd day my whole stump was covered in "water blister" At first when my liner was "full" size I could not BREAK the suction, so my pros (at that time) cut my liner in HALF, I'd paid $400, to have this liner cut in half. After it was cut in half, then it would "split" all the way down to the bottom of the liner. (I ended up buying 3 liners, and all had to be cut!) But maybe because I've always used the suction on my stump. I was more willing to try to go back to a socket that was held on by my "condiles". I use the "contiles" to keep my pros on. Yes it does have some movement in my socket, but I like the "Full Control". Also I can put my leg on "without the liner" in 30 seconds.

When I used the "silicone liner" last year I found it nothing but a pain. If I wanted to get up thru the night to go to the ladies room, I had to "Cream the liner to get it on" and then put my stump into my pros., and THEN use the suction button, So after a good 5 minutes (Iknow that does not sound like a long time, but when your "dying" to go to the washroom, that is a long time.)

What I have not mentioned is "I HAVE CHANGED MY PROS.

I know have a great pros and a sock, they have built my socket "around" my condiles, which works great for me. So I went with this type. which I have had for 45 years.

I've been on the leg for about 3-4 weeks and I love it. I can put my pros on in about 30 seconds. In my opinion I have THE BEST,

Hope this does not confuse you too much.

Lynne

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Thanks everyone - jeez - this fraying is a thing hey?

I spoke to my prost yesterday and he said that I should go and buy a marine type silicone sealer. Like the silicone stuff you put around the bath and tiles.....but the marine one apparantly is see-through.

He says that I should dab it one wherever the liner starts to break down.

Anyone tried that?

Ally

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Yes it does have some movement in my socket, but I like the "Full Control".

My prosthetist asked me what differences I felt moving from a total contact IC socket to the MAS with a liner.

I told him that it made me feel numb, and like I had lost control. He said I was the first person to ever describe it that way.

So Lynn, I understand what you mean by the 'full control' thing. It's weird not feeling the socket against my leg.

Ally

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:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh Marcus.....how does your family cope with you???

But thanks, really, for letting me know about the liner. I'll stop worrying so much now - stupid thing - it's so damn expensive......

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mmmmm - ok - is it floppy stuff???? Because my prosthetist is thinking of trying to build a floppy socket next year....for his favourite guinea pig....

:)

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