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Heather Mills - Amputee Forum
drewkowsky

WhywontGodhealamputees.com

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This site is scary on an emotional and spiritual level. The site owner has the right to express the opinions, I guess, but the question is muddled at worst and begged at best. Without going into a theological rant, as this is not the proper place to do so, it is shameful that someone singles out amputees as the underpinning for an abstract and arcane debate.

The premise of the site reminds me of an encounter I had with a door-to-door religion salesman one morning. I had just finished working a week of 16-hour overnight shifts and going to school. I had gotten home at 8 on a Saturday morning ready to sleep for 2 days when the man came knocking at my door to deliver his version of the Truth. I am usually pretty considerate when people come around, even those I personally find annoying.

After a minute or so into his speech, I asked him if his faith accepted the Doctrine of Predestination. He said, "Well, of course."

So I asked him, "Then why are you HERE?"

I am sure he is selling vacuums door-to-door now.

-m-

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You sound like a lady after my own heart. When I'm in the mood, I enjoy a robust debate with the occasional - "Saturday, Knock on my door, without invitations, disregarding what I may be doing at the moment - reading, sleeping, working, or chasing the Mrs. - ALL in the name of sharing THEIR agenda and enlightening this poor stupid soul who can't think for himself - all endowed saviour-to-be of my soul"

Yes, when I have nothing else to do, a good healthy discussion of the issues is refreshing. It must be something that I say, because they eventually stop coming around. :angry:

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This site is scary on an emotional and spiritual level. The site owner has the right to express the opinions, I guess, but the question is muddled at worst and begged at best. Without going into a theological rant, as this is not the proper place to do so, it is shameful that someone singles out amputees as the underpinning for an abstract and arcane debate.

The premise of the site reminds me of an encounter I had with a door-to-door religion salesman one morning. I had just finished working a week of 16-hour overnight shifts and going to school. I had gotten home at 8 on a Saturday morning ready to sleep for 2 days when the man came knocking at my door to deliver his version of the Truth. I am usually pretty considerate when people come around, even those I personally find annoying.

After a minute or so into his speech, I asked him if his faith accepted the Doctrine of Predestination. He said, "Well, of course."

So I asked him, "Then why are you HERE?"

I am sure he is selling vacuums door-to-door now.

-m-

LOL, see this is refreshing. I could care less that they are using this arguement for atheism or if it were for any other religious view. What bothers me is that it seems to hold the view that we amputees are so lowly and live such shattered existences (sarcasm) that there can't possibly be a God. I mean excuse you, thats complete and utter bs. Go quote the latest Dawkins fad and leave me out of it.

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I saw this this site some time ago - it also has the url whydoesgodhateamputees.com.

I did not find it demeaning of amputees, I believe that they just used amputees as an example of their argument - they could have used any of the more obvious disabilities for, I think, the point they are making is that you never see "god" or "his representatives" healing things that are 'really hard'

I thought of mentioning this site when I first saw it but didn't - I generally don't like getting into discussions about beliefs or religions.

Everybody has their beliefs and everybody believes that theirs is the only true belief. Some religions, seem to tolerate other beliefs, others do whatever is in their power to crush or destroy other religions and/or their followers. I'll let you decide what religions do what - but I'm sure others would disagree with your answers, it's human nature.

I believe that we should all 'live and let live' - other people can believe and do whatever they like just as long as they don't try to 'convert' me or impinge on things I (or others) want to do. I don't really expect to see this in my lifetime, if ever.

That's religion taken care of - now don't get me started on "Global Warming"...

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If I want to interpret a healing as what they so feel it to be than I guess that I too would be ignorant.

To believe that a healing is only a physical thing is obsurd. Is it not why we have God gifted people to do what we can not.

I believe my leg guy is a mirical guy, he got me off crutches and walking when even Dr. ertl was shocked I could.

See one mans jumk is another mans treasure.

I guess the good thing about this we can see that there are still ignorant people out there and when I feel dumb and read this I feel pretty good that I am not so dumb, bias or ignorant.

Skully Cat

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One of my favorite websites. Well thought-out and presented. It's also devastatingly rational. B)

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I've looked over the website and my conclusion is that God didn't bring him a pony when he was little, so now he HATES GOD, and WANTS HIM TO DIE!

Sorry, but I can't rationalize this existence without the presence of some kind of master intelligence. Cosmic coincidence just doesn't work for me.

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I've looked over the website and my conclusion is that God didn't bring him a pony when he was little, so now he HATES GOD, and WANTS HIM TO DIE!

Sorry, but I can't rationalize this existence without the presence of some kind of master intelligence. Cosmic coincidence just doesn't work for me.

Hardly, but I'm not sure getting into a religious discussion of this depth is appropriate (or well-received) in this forum. Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd like to discuss further. :)

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I love it when people come to my door asking if I will discuss religion. I tell them that I am a committed Druid and believe strongly in tree worship and human sacrifice. They don't seem to want to come in after that.

Cheers

Roger

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I've looked over the website and my conclusion is that God didn't bring him a pony when he was little, so now he HATES GOD, and WANTS HIM TO DIE!

Sorry, but I can't rationalize this existence without the presence of some kind of master intelligence. Cosmic coincidence just doesn't work for me.

Hardly, but I'm not sure getting into a religious discussion of this depth is appropriate (or well-received) in this forum. Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd like to discuss further. :)

why not??????

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why not??????

Religious discussions tend to get quite heated... but if the mods OK it, I'll have a go.

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I'll ok it as long as noone gets silly............deal? :angry:

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I'll ok it as long as noone gets silly............deal? :angry:

Define "silly". :P

Seriously, though... I disagree with Kencor's assumption that the author of the site hates any god. There's a lot of rational statements in that website that would need addressing before jumping to that conclusion.

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I'll ok it as long as noone gets silly............deal? :rolleyes:

Define "silly". :P

Seriously, though... I disagree with Kencor's assumption that the author of the site hates any god. There's a lot of rational statements in that website that would need addressing before jumping to that conclusion.

Ehhh, being a former psychology student, and having my gf currently halfway to her masters in psych, I can verify that religious belief or lack thereof has very little to do with rationalism or logic arguements. Faith in something bigger is a normal part of a healthy psyche and actually encourages mental health. Obviously, religious extremism is not covered under this umbrella, but the vast majority of people of faith are not religious extremists. However, when someone lashes out as another group as being "weak" or "inferior" it is usually just not morally repugnant statement, there are underlying issues as well....

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Ehhh, being a former psychology student, and having my gf currently halfway to her masters in psych, I can verify that religious belief or lack thereof has very little to do with rationalism or logic arguements.

While religious belief requires faith, by definition a suspension of reason, logic and reason have everything to do with a lack of religious belief. It is by reason and logic that we come to see the internal contradictions in the support for belief and we conclude, from evidence, that the supernatural doesn't exist.

Faith in something bigger is a normal part of a healthy psyche and actually encourages mental health. Obviously, religious extremism is not covered under this umbrella, but the vast majority of people of faith are not religious extremists.

I can see how religious belief can be comforting, specially for someone in a psychological state deserving of concern, but that doesn't make religious belief rational or true. I prefer a painful verifiable fact over a lie.

However, when someone lashes out as another group as being "weak" or "inferior" it is usually just not morally repugnant statement, there are underlying issues as well....

Most religions, if not all, claim to be "the one true religion" or to be based on "the revealed truth", so right off the bat you have a disqualification of other beliefs as weak or inferior. By your own definition, that's a morally repugnant statement reflective of underlying issues. Your assessment is verified by the sheer number of bloody conflicts caused throughtout history by differing religious beliefs.

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Ehhh, being a former psychology student, and having my gf currently halfway to her masters in psych, I can verify that religious belief or lack thereof has very little to do with rationalism or logic arguements. Faith in something bigger is a normal part of a healthy psyche and actually encourages mental health. Obviously, religious extremism is not covered under this umbrella, but the vast majority of people of faith are not religious extremists. However, when someone lashes out as another group as being "weak" or "inferior" it is usually just not morally repugnant statement, there are underlying issues as well....

Yes (having a friend who is a psychologist), that is what I've always understood too.

However, when someone lashes out as another group as being "weak" or "inferior" it is usually just not morally repugnant statement, there are underlying issues as well....

Most religions, if not all, claim to be "the one true religion" or to be based on "the revealed truth", so right off the bat you have a disqualification of other beliefs as weak or inferior. By your own definition, that's a morally repugnant statement reflective of underlying issues. Your assessment is verified by the sheer number of bloody conflicts caused throughtout history by differing religious beliefs.

I may be wrong, but I understood drew to be talking about lashing out at amputees, not anything faith-based.

I personally think that the website is a load of rubbish & is seriously lacking in theological argument.

Lizzie :)

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I personally think that the website is a load of rubbish & is seriously lacking in theological argument.

Hi, Lizzie. :)

Would you mind stating the reasons you think the site's rubbish? Was there anything in the site that didn't make sense, or is it just an opinion based on your beliefs?

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I personally think that the website is a load of rubbish & is seriously lacking in theological argument.

Hi, Lizzie. :)

Would you mind stating the reasons you think the site's rubbish? Was there anything in the site that didn't make sense, or is it just an opinion based on your beliefs?

I think the title says it all, Laura:

"Why won't God heal amputees? <---- The most important question we can ask about God"

If I was thinking of asking a question about God, it certainly wouldn't be that. It would probably be: 'How was life created and how much of a part, if any, did God play in creating life?' or 'Can the existence of life prove there is a God?' I certainly wouldn't marginalise a section of society even further to disprove the existence of something, the belief of which comes from within.

For various reasons, amputation is not approved of in large sections of the world (e.g. Asia). To use amputees as an example is to use sensationalism (just like the tabloid press)...to play on people's emotions.

Personally, I think the existence of amputees neither proves or disproves the existence of God. The belief in God (and I'm talking about a superior being, belonging to any belief system) is personal. I also believe that 'sh*t happens'...for some people being an amputee is that 'sh*t'. However, for others it is a way of life or a new beginning; 'one man's meat is another man's poison', and vice versa.

As far as I am concerned, there is a little bit of my God in everyone.

Lizzie :)

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A Rabbi once told me that "In religion, you pick your mythology. The purpose of religion is to quantify and simplify a human's contact with the unexplained greater forces in the grand scheme of things." This lead to a distinction between religion and faith. I asked him about the rational school of thought, that does not accept that which cannot be proven. Is there such a thing as atheism in human beings?

He agreed that there were those who could or would not accept the notion of a higher power. Consider that this is one of the most important steps in 12-step recovery. The Rabbi's reply was that, in his opinion, healthy human beings all share some sort of appreciation for being a part of the universe, in some form or another. For those who need rational approaches, allowing for the very existence of rationality meets the criterion.

"One true religion," "The only way to the truth," and all the other claptrap is not what faith is. Nor does it glorify or demean the deity it is supposed to celebrate. Those are ego strokers, nothing more and nothing less.

Is it up to G-d, the higher energy, the Source, or whatever our ideal might be, to "heal" those we as humans have found to be "lacking?" My objection to the site had nothing to do with the theology, spirituality, ideas, or lack thereof, as expressed by the writer. My objection was to the judgement and exploitation of a group of people as "proof" of an opinion.

Lizzie said it best: "The existence of amputees neither proves or disproves the existence of God." It only proves the existence of amputees.

There was some graffitti on one of the stairwells at the university I attended. The sequence was:

"God is dead" -- Nietzche

under which some had scrawled:

"Nietzche is dead" -- God

I need coffee.

-m-

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Is it up to G-d, the higher energy, the Source, or whatever our ideal might be, to "heal" those we as humans have found to be "lacking?" My objection to the site had nothing to do with the theology, spirituality, ideas, or lack thereof, as expressed by the writer. My objection was to the judgement and exploitation of a group of people as "proof" of an opinion.

Lizzie said it best: "The existence of amputees neither proves or disproves the existence of God." It only proves the existence of amputees.

There was some graffitti on one of the stairwells at the university I attended. The sequence was:

"God is dead" -- Nietzche

under which some had scrawled:

"Nietzche is dead" -- God

I need coffee.

-m-

If that site had used "WhywontGodhealtheblind.com", we wouldn't be here.

My personal philosophy is more on the order of "God (Supreme Being, whatever) is testing me". How do I respond?

First, by surviving.

Second, by using what I know and can do to make life a bit easier/better for those around me.

Third, by being the best one-legged man that I know how to be (just as I did when I had two legs).

At the scene of the accident, a form was seen to appear at my door (by others). There was no way that a mortal person could have gotten there. That may have been my "guardian angel". Am I sure? No. I only know what I've been told and what I believe.

I believe that someone/something had a further use for me.

I'll get off my soap-box, again.

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I think the title says it all, Laura:

"Why won't God heal amputees? <---- The most important question we can ask about God"

If I was thinking of asking a question about God, it certainly wouldn't be that. It would probably be: 'How was life created and how much of a part, if any, did God play in creating life?' or 'Can the existence of life prove there is a God?' I certainly wouldn't marginalise a section of society even further to disprove the existence of something, the belief of which comes from within.

Those are all important questions, Lizzie, but have nothing to do with the site's objective. What they are really asking is "why, when faced with an absolute situation (an amputee either regrows a limb or doesn't), are there no credible accounts of god intervening, while when the situation is less strightforward, all sorts of unsubstantiated attributions of divine healing pop up"? Amputation is just the absolute situation the site's authors needed to illustrate their point. Nothing demeaning to us there.

Personally, I think the existence of amputees neither proves or disproves the existence of God. The belief in God (and I'm talking about a superior being, belonging to any belief system) is personal. I also believe that 'sh*t happens'...for some people being an amputee is that 'sh*t'. However, for others it is a way of life or a new beginning; 'one man's meat is another man's poison', and vice versa.

As far as I am concerned, there is a little bit of my God in everyone.

You're obviously entitled to that belief. :)

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