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Stormy1952

Devotee

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Actually, I have spoken with a number of devs who have gone into 'disabled' professions specifically because of their attraction to PWD's. If one has to think about the postive side of this, we land up with a handful of people who really do care, and will literally bend over backwards to make our lives easier. Because they do, after all, really have a passion to see us doing well.:)

Thats the same reason a pedophile becomes a Boy Scout leader so long as nobody crosses the line of professionalism everybodys happy right? I dont think you need to break a law to make it moraly wrong. That same Boy Scout leader who everybody likes and sends their boys to hang out in the garage making soap box race cars is STILL secretly fullfilling a sexual passion for boys even if he never touches one. I have heard the saying "he raped me with his eyes". Sometimes sexual passions can be fullfilled with only "pieces of a puzzle". They dont need ALL the pieces to get fullfilled. The mind will fill in the blanks. Yes, I know I went to the extreme, but I hope you see my point. I just dont think the "positive" outweighs the negative. Just my opinion.

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Guest bearlover

Jim, I don't think anyone here disputes that there's a variety of devotees for just about any number of things... and I don't think anyone's saying that we shouldn't be aware of that. What I'm hearing, though, is that this is a forum for amputee issues... and that devs who focus their attention on amps ARE an amputee issue... one that may not have occurred to a new amputee.

"Harp" on it...? No. Be aware of it...? ABSOLUTELY. And if giving some new amp a "heads up" about it helps increase awareness, it's well worth the time it takes to do so.

:rolleyes: Ooooookay. <_< I agree? What I am trying to say however, is that one should not be so surprised that they are here - and some seem to be. That's all.

I agree Jim..There are absosolutely some here!

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:huh::blink: :o I was afraid someone would say that!!!!!!!

EEEEEK................ :lol:

hahahahahaha :D :P

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Jim, I don't think anyone here disputes that there's a variety of devotees for just about any number of things... and I don't think anyone's saying that we shouldn't be aware of that.

Point made. I don't think AMPUTEE 24/7 nor do I live in an amputee world. I am just a man who had his lower leg amputated.......and a kidney removed, and a bypass put in and taken out and, and, and, and.

In short, I live in the everyday real world and as such am acutely aware of the pitfalls and hazards in it - and how to handle them. To all of a sudden feel it a duty to inform new amputees about the "dev's" that abound, in my opinion is "closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out". If the mature people on here don't realize about the hazards living in a society by now - it's a little to late. And if they think that: "OH, YOU MEAN THERE ARE THAT KIND HERE????" then they must have had their head buried in the sand all of these years.

Is this the first time that they have heard of amputee dev's??? Probably. It was for me - but to no surprise. I've lived outside in the real world in life and have been fully aware of them in our society for a long time.

I don't see what makes an amputee dev, any different than the other kind, that go around .....doing things like I just crossed out and decided not to print. <_<

Has anyone noticed that this particular subject has had 53 posts and 675 views, in it's relatively short run - this time? I find it hard to believe that all of it is in the interest of "informing the newbies". To touch on subjects like this, are all part and parcel of what this forum is about, but boy - I bet the dev's are sure having fun realizing how much commotion and interest they have caused just by their presence.

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In short, I live in the everyday real world and as such am acutely aware of the pitfalls and hazards in it - and how to handle them. To all of a sudden feel it a duty to inform new amputees about the "dev's" that abound, in my opinion is "closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out". If the mature people on here don't realize about the hazards living in a society by now - it's a little to late. And if they think that: "OH, YOU MEAN THERE ARE THAT KIND HERE????" then they must have had their head buried in the sand all of these years.

Please don't take this the wrong way, Jim, but I read your post and I thought 'this man lives in another world', surely? :unsure:

We're not disputing that they're any different to any other fetishist, it's just that they're not normally spoken about and some people prefer to brush the subject under the carpet and forget about it. There's also no reason why it has to be broadcast from the roof tops. However, there is a need (as it's not widely spoken about in real life amputee circles) for people to be aware. To be aware is to be prepared, is it not? And, what's the harm in discussing the issue?

I should imagine that Cheryl thinks it's a good idea to forewarn new amps because they are so new to amputation and everything that entails. As an established amp I find new amps act in a similar way to children (e.g. in their quest for knowledge etc.). They're not children of course, but there is a vulnerability and I think that should be protected.

Just imagine for a second, if you will Jim, being female (you're female because us females get more hassle from ill-mannered devs - most female devs seem to possess manners and there are a few male devs that need a manners implant :o ) and you're a new amp...you haven't gone back to work yet so you're feeling lonely and have very low self-esteem...and a bloke contacts you, out of the blue, and starts to chat you up? What would you do? :unsure:

(And, if you answer my post by saying 'Yes, but we're all grown-ups', I think I shall scream! :wacko:)

Lizzie :)

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Actually, I have spoken with a number of devs who have gone into 'disabled' professions specifically because of their attraction to PWD's. If one has to think about the postive side of this, we land up with a handful of people who really do care, and will literally bend over backwards to make our lives easier. Because they do, after all, really have a passion to see us doing well.:)

Thats the same reason a pedophile becomes a Boy Scout leader so long as nobody crosses the line of professionalism everybodys happy right? I dont think you need to break a law to make it moraly wrong. That same Boy Scout leader who everybody likes and sends their boys to hang out in the garage making soap box race cars is STILL secretly fullfilling a sexual passion for boys even if he never touches one. I have heard the saying "he raped me with his eyes". Sometimes sexual passions can be fullfilled with only "pieces of a puzzle". They dont need ALL the pieces to get fullfilled. The mind will fill in the blanks. Yes, I know I went to the extreme, but I hope you see my point. I just dont think the "positive" outweighs the negative. Just my opinion.

You may well be right. However, there is always the exception to the rule.

I know a couple in the states. She is an AK, he is a dev. The met, married, and they ADORE eachother. He makes her legs, and they have worked so well, that he now makes legs for her disabled friends who can't afford them. For free.

Works for them. And the amputees they know......

But I do get your point.

:)

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Some people need to get in reality and their heads out of the sand.

Who?

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*scratches my head and wonders why I bloody bother*

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(And, if you answer my post by saying 'Yes, but we're all grown-ups', I think I shall scream! :wacko:)

Lizzie :)

Yes, but we're all grown-ups[/i]. (I'm just kidding, but I wanted to see if I could hear your scream all the way over here.) :D

Seriously though, there is no way that I could picture being a woman. Now, with that said, the only point that I have been trying to make, is that if others can't make it through the amputee world without getting freaked out about there possibly being "devotees" around, How (and I'm mainly speaking about women here - but it really includes both sexes") did they make it through life with all of the physicals and doctors - gynocologists, mammorgrams - sports doctors, and on and on and on. What are they thinking when they try on a new pair of shoes? My God - who might be watching? What is my teacher - co-worker - boss or even friend thinking.

What I am trying to say is that all of this is centered on the amputee as if we are something different than the rest of the world. I lost a leg - period. Yes, it was a big deal, and now I suppose that I have to address the issue of "dev's" in my new world, but what I'm trying to say is that I (and all the rest of us) have been dealing with them in the rest of our world all of our lives..... and if they think not, then they have been burying their head in the sand. There are "dev's" about children - boys and girls, dev's about sports figures - men and women, and models, actors and actresses, and the waitress down at the cafe, and the nurse in the doctors office - and definitely the secretary.

If you go around thinking AMPUTEE 24/7......THEN YOU ARE ONE. I am not. I'm a man - a father - husband - grandfather and great-grandfather. A businessman, and many more things,,,,FIRST. Oh yes - I had the lower part of my leg amputated - but I have to tell you, as much as I didn't like it (and still don't), it isn't the worst thing in this life that has happened to me, and sure isn't the end of the world. I've climbed many mountains by my fingernails, and pulled myself up out of some pretty deep holes by sheer will.

I'm sorry to dissapoint the dev's out there that are reading this, but I really don't give you much thought, and like Clark Gable said in the movie Gone With The Wind "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d***. Now, get in my face, or get hanky panky with me, and I will definitely put you in the front of my mind - real quick. BUT, I don't need to be taught on a forum, how to do that. I did it when I was 10 1/2 with a swift kick to the nether regions. Making me an amputee didn't change anything - except, now I would probably have to use my other foot, or my leg might come off. :lol:

My advice to others, is to get there head out of being an amputee - and get on with life.

I receive calls everyday from people around our country here (and emails from outside), wanting to talk about their new amputee status. I listen and try to console and understand - and then suggest that they put on their leg, or hop on their crutches and get on with life..... and if they aren't sure how to do that, then I am here for them (as we all are), but my attitude is "quit whining and get on with getting better".

EMPATHY....... absolutely. Being a fellow amputee I have loads of it. SYMPATHY......someone once told me where to find it in the dictionary.

Is this being unecessary harsh - perhaps. Where I come from, we call it tough love.

You've heard me say it before. My ego doesn't have to be right all of the time - but...... my values mean that I do have to be honest. I just was.

OH YES, ONE MORE THING. I THOUGHT LIKE THIS WHEN I WAS A "NEWBIE" ALSO, AND SURE DIDN'T NEED ANY INSTRUCTIONS.

Now, Lizzie you can go ahead and scream. :P :P

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Jim, I don't think anyone here disputes that there's a variety of devotees for just about any number of things... and I don't think anyone's saying that we shouldn't be aware of that. What I'm hearing, though, is that this is a forum for amputee issues... and that devs who focus their attention on amps ARE an amputee issue... one that may not have occurred to a new amputee.

efore I even heard the term "devotee"

"Harp" on it...? No. Be aware of it...? ABSOLUTELY. And if giving some new amp a "heads up" about it helps increase awareness, it's well worth the time it takes to do so.

Cheryl,

I agree with you 100%. I had been an amputee for over a year before I had even heard the term "devotee". Forewarned is forearmed. Knowledge is power. Being educated is never wrong.

Sorry, Jim.

JudyH

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Jim, I don't think anyone here disputes that there's a variety of devotees for just about any number of things... and I don't think anyone's saying that we shouldn't be aware of that. What I'm hearing, though, is that this is a forum for amputee issues... and that devs who focus their attention on amps ARE an amputee issue... one that may not have occurred to a new amputee.

efore I even heard the term "devotee"

"Harp" on it...? No. Be aware of it...? ABSOLUTELY. And if giving some new amp a "heads up" about it helps increase awareness, it's well worth the time it takes to do so.

Cheryl,

I agree with you 100%. I had been an amputee for over a year before I had even heard the term "devotee". Forewarned is forearmed. Knowledge is power. Being educated is never wrong.

Sorry, Jim.

JudyH

Oh gosh - no problem at all Judy. If I thought that we were having anything other than a friendly exchange of ideas then I would have dropped out long ago. I have the utmost respect for Cherylm, Higgy, Lizzie2, Cat, Judy H and all of the others that may - or may not be agreeing with me. We can disagree - without being disagreeable.

Now, with that said, you make my point. You've lived life for a few years, and to say that this is the first time that you have ever heard the term "devotees", is absurb. Oh, the exact terminology may be different, but we were forewarned about people with "an unhealthy interest" in us in our childhood. The point that I have been trying to make is that to find them in our amputee world ALSO, should come as no surprise to anyone. If anyone is surprised, then I say that they are either naive or immature and have their heads buried in the sand.

I mentioned before, that my children were raised with admonitions of the "devotees" ( to use this word) in the world - as was I, and were my grandchildren and are my great-grandchildren now.

I am continuing on with this discussion, simply because I enjoy a good debate with intelligent people - however, I truly don't believe that this subjects warrents this much space on the forum. We are attempting to spoon feed a very few who haven't really faced the realities in life - yet. If this is how we choose to spend our resources - then fine, I'll play. I've nothing better to do - at the moment

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Okay, gang, I'm now getting REALLY confused! We should be aware of the "wierdos" in the world by NOT mentioning that they exist? By warning a new and confused/worried amputee that there's a possibility of encountering someone who does not have their best interests at heart, we're engaging in "unnessesary training?"

Jim, I'm NOT trying to imply that "your way" didn't work for you... you obviously feel you were appropriately prepared for whatever challenges life has thrown your way. What I AM trying to say is that some folks could do to hear about the potential for problems BEFORE encountering them. And yes, I'm one of those people!

I'm going to get graphic here, so please forgive me for this... it's a part of my life I don't talk about much. I was a physically abused child. I had an uncle (a seriously disturbed former POW) who periodically reenacted some of his prison-camp experiences on his five-year-old niece. It took me literally years to recover from it. If that makes me out of touch with reality, so be it.

Now my parents had made the standard "don't talk to strangers; be aware of what's going on around you; tell an adult if someone mistreats you" speeches to me. I was well-prepared FOR STRANGERS. But I was confused, terrified, and at a complete loss over what to do when my parents kept sending me off for outings with my uncle. If that makes me a naive little kid, so be it... but the fact of the matter is that I was periodically tortured for slightly over a year before my folks figured out what was going on... because I was too confused and frightened to know how to tell them, and because I wasn't "tough enough" to fight off an adult with a knife.

Sorry about that little story, gang... now back to "REAL LIFE." Having been through that experience, what I'm taking from your recent posts is that, having experienced a "wierdo" first-hand, I therefore should not have needed or wanted to be made aware that such a thing as an amputee dev existed. Well, sorry, but my experience does not parallel yours in that respect. I most definitely would have appreciated a "reminder" that there are some strange folks out there, and that some of them have an unhealthy interest in amputees... so if a new relationship "felt wierd," there was likely a reason for this.

I also do not "think amputee 24/7," nor do I believe I live in an "amputee world." I AM, however, an amputee... and sometimes, like it or not, that has an impact on how I live and what I do. If someone who has knowledge of some aspect of living successfully as an amputee wants to take the time to share their knowledge and experience with me, I am grateful for the opportunity to "pick their brains." That's why I came here in the first place, after all.

Now, can we all just "agree to disagree" and move on?

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Guest bearlover

My amputation DOSE NOT identify who Iam or what I'm about..Yes I lost a leg after many, many years of operations! OH well life goes on. I for one are very happy that its not worse..It dose no good whineing or playing the "why me card" we all have to deal and go on with life with or without our limbs.

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One question, then Im gone from this drawn out discussion.

Where is the person who started this topic? <_< <_<

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Guest bearlover
One question, then Im gone from this drawn out discussion.

Where is the person who started this topic? <_< <_<

Iam so gone too! Its over done, over talked and over analyzed! :blink:

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Gosh... gone for a few days ill and look what I came back to.....

To begin with, I respect most everyone on here and in this thread. With that said.......I'm going to post this as a member of the forum and no way an administrator, this is my own personal view of things.

Isn't the major thing here that most every female (with the exception of bearlover) is really feeling when it comes to devo's is vulnerable? Along with everything thing else, there is just one more thing to have to consider.. Not dwell on, not worry about, but consider and be aware of..

First off... Jim...... I think what you aren't really understanding is what it's like from a woman's point of view being an amp, and please, don't try to tell me.. You can't really possibily understand. My father, as I've said before, taught me to speak my peace. He also put me in charge of hired men while in my 20's... Do you know how many times, when I told a man to do something, he questioned me. Or bantied up like a rooster to proceed to "tell" me what I should be doing. Would they have done that to my father.. No Way! Did they "tell" him how to do how he should be doing it? Nope! It didn't matter if I repeated, word for word what Pop had told me to tell them, they didn't "take"orders from females..It didn't matter in what tone I asked or told them. Needless to say, this female would no longer pay them either..Being a woman is different, no matter how you put it. It's different.

And as for this statement, even for the sake of debate," How (and I'm mainly speaking about women here - but it really includes both sexes") did they make it through life with all of the physicals and doctors - gynocologists, mammorgrams - sports doctors, and on and on and on. What are they thinking when they try on a new pair of shoes? My God - who might be watching? What is my teacher - co-worker - boss or even friend thinking." Well, Jim, it really wasn't your best statement, kind of a low blow, if you ask me..

As for this long, tired thread, well, you keep expounding on your thoughts, that ain't gonna beat this mule into going a different direction.

Cheryl, I applaud the courage it took to tell your story. I can imagine how vulnerable as a child you felt, especially when it was a relative. You contribute so much to this forum.

Lizzie, same for you.... it took courage.....I do understand your point of view.

Dave, Stormy 1952 started it.

Last but not least, I don't think that this is just "feeding the sharks" on here..BTW, if you know of a known devo you should really let someone know, If you have proof.. I don't think that because someone got tired of it, it should be shelved. If it has run it's course, so be it, but to stop, because one person is tired of it..well, that's not right.. It is informative to the people who aren't as worldly and wise,or mature, or may be a bit naive.. That is the whole point of the forum.. It's for everyone....

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Guest bearlover

Gosh... gone for a few days ill and look what I came back to.....

To begin with, I respect most everyone on here and in this thread. With that said.......I'm going to post this as a member of the forum and no way an administrator, this is my own personal view of things.

Isn't the major thing here that most every female (with the exception of bearlover) is really feeling when it comes to devo's is vulnerable? Along with everything thing else, there is just one more thing to have to consider.. Not dwell on, not worry about, but consider and be aware of..

First off... Jim...... I think what you aren't really understanding is what it's like from a woman's point of view being an amp, and please, don't try to tell me.. You can't really possibily understand. My father, as I've said before, taught me to speak my peace. He also put me in charge of hired men while in my 20's... Do you know how many times, when I told a man to do something, he questioned me. Or bantied up like a rooster to proceed to "tell" me what I should be doing. Would they have done that to my father.. No Way! Did they "tell" him how to do how he should be doing it? Nope! It didn't matter if I repeated, word for word what Pop had told me to tell them, they didn't "take"orders from females..It didn't matter in what tone I asked or told them. Needless to say, this female would no longer pay them either..Being a woman is different, no matter how you put it. It's different.

And as for this statement, even for the sake of debate," How (and I'm mainly speaking about women here - but it really includes both sexes") did they make it through life with all of the physicals and doctors - gynocologists, mammorgrams - sports doctors, and on and on and on. What are they thinking when they try on a new pair of shoes? My God - who might be watching? What is my teacher - co-worker - boss or even friend thinking." Well, Jim, it really wasn't your best statement, kind of a low blow, if you ask me..

As for this long, tired thread, well, you keep expounding on your thoughts, that ain't gonna beat this mule into going a different direction.

Cheryl, I applaud the courage it took to tell your story. I can imagine how vulnerable as a child you felt, especially when it was a relative. You contribute so much to this forum.

Lizzie, same for you.... it took courage.....I do understand your point of view.

Dave, Stormy 1952 started it.

Last but not least, I don't think that this is just "feeding the sharks" on here..BTW, if you know of a known devo you should really let someone know, If you have proof.. I don't think that because someone got tired of it, it should be shelved. If it has run it's course, so be it, but to stop, because one person is tired of it..well, that's not right.. It is informative to the people who aren't as worldly and wise,or mature, or may be a bit naive.. That is the whole point of the forum.. It's for everyone....

I'm a women amputee and have accepted this well. I have been taought not to feel sorry for myself young in life also that life is not fair. What Jim T. said is fine. Some people can't deal with about it I quess. Some just don't know what is important in life. Life goes on. reurardless of what we have lost. Some need to suck it up and deal.

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Where is the person who started this topic? <_< <_<

Higgy, the keyword in my question is WHERE, since he/she started this topic and got everybody in a feeding frenzy...... AGAIN. Happens all the time here when its a touchy (pardon the pun) subject. I just wished that the person who started this topic would have participated in it. We dont even know if they read anything after posting. I hope they do read it, or have we ALL been baited ? (pun intended).

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Now, can we all just "agree to disagree" and move on?

Okay :P

I meant Okay, but I do have to respond to one thing. Who the H*** gave some of you women the idea that you are the only ones in life who have ever been preyed upon - and what in God's name makes the AMPUTEES so darn special. We lost our legs - not our spirit. Or at least I and some others I know didn't.

This happens everyday in every corner of the world, and in all walks of life. I do know that for a fact.

So, my suggestion is for everyone to quit their whining about being a girl or being vulnerable. We all are - or have been in our life in one way or another. This doesn't minimize for a second what some of you have been through at the hands of "people with an unusual interest, but you may not be the only ones.

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Guest bearlover

Agreed! as I said I'm a women and its no big deal to go to the Gyn, mamograms, ect....We have to do things a little different BIG DEAL! its just life. I ask for no special treatments or pity. Like I said I have a lot more going for me than my amputation..People have actually told me" they forget I'm a amputee" because I never whine or bring it up or remind people for what? Its not what identifys me. Unless you wnat it to. I'm a wife, a part time teaching assistant., a sister, a aunt to many. I enjoy my life leg or no leg it has not changed my personailty at all.

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