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Heather Mills - Amputee Forum
LauraG

Religion...

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I read one of Clint's posts in another thread, but I didn't think that was an appropriate place to reply, as it's purely a thread where support is being given to someone who needs it, not a place to debate religion. That's why I've created a new thread.

Anyway, here's what Clint wrote:

I am sorry that you are down right now. Sometimes it is easy to have something to blame for are hardships. I am afraid for you that you do not believe in God. I am also afraid you have opened a box of worms. Reading the bible is what has kept me in understanding through all my hard times. It can be easy to say, God would not let this happen to me. We will never know what Gods plans for us are untill they happen. If you do not believe what the bible says look at what the bible says about wars so far. The good old USA started as a bible believeing nation. Why do you think that we protect Israel? I did not write all this to offend you but, I fear for lost people who do not believe in God. All you have to do to go to heven is believe that Gods only son Jesus died on the cross so we all could be forgiven for are sins. I hope to hear from you again.

I grew up in a Catholic family. Nothing too radical, though. Sunday Mass, faith, the Vatican... that sort of thing. As time passed, however, I began to form an opinion of my own. Out of that came my own belief system, and it's been a good one for me so far.

I figure the ten commandments are about the smartest rules for living peacefully in society. Succint, clear, to the point. My belief is that all religions are there for two things. One, to attempt to explain the the magical and the unexplainable through the simplest of all means: faith. It's a cool concept. Someone seeks an explanation nobody else has. Another says 'just believe, it's a religious thing and therefore way above our heads.' Smart.

The second reason is to set rules that allow society to thrive, and that's the real biggie. What any society needs is for its members to behave in a relatively selfless way sometimes, and for its members to have a measure of respect for society itself. Cool, but you don't need religion to behave properly and productively in society. You just do it.

...so why is it that a few religions here and there, Catholics and Christians being notorious for this, feel the need to try to convert those who don't believe the same they do? Why do some poeple, as Clint has said, are afraid for you that you do not believe in God? Why insist we turn to the Bible for answers, when we already have our own, and even if we don't we don't feel like looking for them there? Why are we 'lost' if we choose to believe in one thing and they've chosen to believe in another? Heck, why heaven? Why hell?

I hope this becomes an interesting, productive debate and not a bash-fest, as we are all in the same boat here and fighting would not be nice. I ask Johnny to delete this thread if it does become a fight, or even if he thinks it's not an appropriate subject for this forum.

Fingers crossed. :)

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Hi

THis will be a interesting thread. It was also interesting to read everyones repplies to the ( belief in God ) thread. I hope Tonya can get on top of things and live a good life. I see you question the things I have written? I usually am not one to talk in believes unless the subject has already been brought up. With the title belief in God I would consiter the subject definatly broght up. I see that you have taken offence to the things I have written? I have always belived in God, I was not very close to him before I was hurt. I am much closer to him now. Getting right with God is the best advice I can give a person. I will not get into religion. There are many religions. And I feel it is best for a individual if they chose to seek there own religion. I do not mean to be push my belief. I do not mean to offend anyone.I hope this discussion will mabe be helpfull to some one. I also fear this thread will turn into a flame. I hope we can all be civil and not judge each other by are beliefs. I will not apologize for telling someone something helpful. It is everyones own choice to believe or not to believe in any advice given here. The only thing I can tell you coserning the bible is all the answers to all are question that we need to know are there. You have to have faith in what ever you believe in. The choice is yours and only yours :D !

See ya

Clint

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Hi, Clint. :)

I see you question the things I have written?

A bit, yeah... but in a good way. :)

I usually am not one to talk in believes unless the subject has already been brought up. With the title belief in God I would consiter the subject definatly broght up.

Yup. :)

I see that you have taken offence to the things I have written?

No, not at all. As you said before, I question, but I definitely don't deel offended at all. One thing you must've gotten from my post is that I deeply respect everyone's beliefs. I'm just letting the voice of my curiousity go wild. :)

I also fear this thread will turn into a flame. I hope we can all be civil and not judge each other by are beliefs.

Please!!

The only thing I can tell you coserning the bible is all the answers to all are question that we need to know are there.

OK... although I tend to turn to more practical and scientific writings for answers.

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Are there no other religions on this planet? Is it so that the god saves only christians? How about the Mother Nature?

Just some questions. If you all know what I mean.

Jukka

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I love diversity....

I think that there are elements from many, many religions that are good for human nature. We would be a boring lot if we were all the same...whether its colour, creed, ability, values, opinions etc.

Lets have more diversity!!!

Sue - Cardiff - UK :huh:

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Hi :)

There are many religions. I probably am not aware of but a few percent of the religion out there. I still feel that religion is best set after by the individual. There is a big difference in the subject of God to religion. Just a example: The are some native americans that practice there tribes belifs, believe in one superior being. The name they give this being might not be God but there own native name for God. Does this mean they will not go to heaven? I personally believe in everything the bible says. Not just a verse here and a verce there. You would have to ask your self first what do you have faith in. If you want to only have faith in things you can see, feel, or a knot on a log thats your choice. I fear for people that blame God for something that has gone ( what looks to us as) wrong in are life :( . Thats my oppion. I guess he is a easy target sence you do not phisically see him day to day ;) . I think this is a neat thread that LauraG started. Good job LauraG :) .

See ya

Clint

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Clint,

I was raised Catholic - but I also have some 'understanding' for those who 'blame' God - Grief is an awful thing and can lead some to question their own faith - rightly or wrongly. People find their own way in life - some move away from their faith, later to return when they are able to deal with whatever is happening in their lives. Time and space is a great key.

Sue - Cardiff - UK

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It's funny that I read this thread today as I just had simular discussion with a minister today. My mother in law is terminal and dying of cancer and she had asked to watch church on tv so we honored her wishes and also called a minister to come to the home which he did.

The very subject of religion came up and we discussed different religions.. I finally realized that it's not religion it's faith.. Do you have the faith that God is the devine and that Jesus is our saviour? Is it not only in your head but is it in your heart? These were pointed out to me and I have a lot to think about!!

Great thread and I hope it doesn't turn into a bashing party..

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I finally realized that it's not religion it's faith.. Do you have the faith that God is the devine and that Jesus is our saviour?

Surely thats just some words. Like a chant at a football match or school song.

If you have faith then surely it's faith that stuff happens for a reason that there is some higher power or means to an end?; good or bad. Whatever "brand" you subscribe to.

Lauras suggestion is that you live a good life; no matter what. Thats a good start for a faith and for most people thats enough.

If you are asking about faith on THIS website then you are talking to people who might have had their faith tested.

But what comes after? I for instance might believe that living a good life+losing a limb automatically qualifies me for a Cloud+dental :).

The problem comes when faith is lost. Be that faith in God, Buddha, the earth being round etc etc.

Thats where you should tread carefully when offering advice. Not consternation or slogans that mean nothing or confuse.

Clint talks about finding religion later in life, Tonya says she has lost her faith because of the things that have happened to change her life.

Both powerful emotions at polar ends of each other.

Maybe Clint now sees the benifits of living a good life and having something to aim for(sorry if you did before man :) ) and maybe Tonya can focus on the most important aspects of her life; like keeping her family together and getting through her troubles without blindly hoping that it will all fall into place. Whatever happens ; we'll all find out at the end, thats all anyone can do. If we post on this website, regardless of our faith or lack of it, then we must respect that.

Impressing faith on someone isn't easy. Making them feel bad or different is.

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I was dropped into a state of confusion :unsure: when at Junior School. 1st off go to assembly and sing songs full of praise the lord cos he created the earth with flowers and tiny little animals and trees, and the sky with the stars and the moon, and the sea with the fish.Next to lessons, first off RE, back to god and his creations, he made a man and called him Adam, then he needed a woman so he took a rib from poor Adam (OUCH!) have you ever broke a rib, very painful to say the least. Anyway God used this rib to make a woman, he called her Eve. Then he put temptation in their path by making an apple tree grow right by them. Of course they would take an apple they were hungry by now, eating the apple made them aware of the differences in their bodies and their sexuality and their feelings towards each other. This embarrassed them so they started wearing fig leaves to cover their private parts. God blamed Eve cos she was the one that picked the apple so he punished her ( we all know how he punished her, so i won`t go into that right now )

Next to lesson on how the earth evolved, a fish type thing crawled out of the sea and realised it needed to grow lungs because it needed to breath a different way to what it had been doing in the sea. This fishy thing then needed to grow legs cos it needed to walk on solid ground and it couldn`t do this on its fins, and so on and so on until lo and behold we ended up with thousands of diffrent animals all evolving from a fish.

Another lesson taught us that man was really a monkey to begin with, running around and swinging from trees, until one day this monkey decided it was much better to stop swinging in the trees and stand on its own two feet, the other two feet were its hands, it just hadn`t realised this.

Then there`s the caveman theory, now looking at my hubby i am inclined to believe this one, he is a real neandathol lol!! :), he just forgot to evolve any further and learn how to behave., but this is what the cavemen did, they learnt stuff like how to make a afire and cook food instead of eating raw, they made clubs and spears to catch their food and so on and so on until we came to present day with all its technology.

Years later i still get confused :angry: , i am never sure which theory i should believe, although i like to believe there is something good waiting for us at the end of our lives on earth.

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If one can find peace within ones own self and leave this world having for the most part lived well...would a "True" God find that acceptable and worthy, even though a life of worshipping was not involved???

Yes Lili, I believe that a "True" God would find that acceptable and worthy. I know perhaps many don't agree and that's fine, but to me, so long as you humble yourself before him, rather it be at your bedside or church, you are still heard and worthy of him. I just don't believe a loving, merciful God would say, "because you did not got to church and humble yourself, you are not worthy of me, therefore I cannot forgive your sins".

This is not my favorite topic to get into, to controversial, but for what it's worth, just wanted to put my opinion out there.

Sheila LBK

Maine USA

Keep Smiling :)

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Ok I tried, with no success, when you put someone elses quote up there, how do you get them boxed in? Thanks

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I fixed your post for you Sheila. Practice with preview. You will learn how to get it without posting that way. Than post it when it looks right. Start by hitting the quote button on the post of the topic that you want to quote.

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Thanks Johnny, I will do preview first and eventually I'll get it figured out...... I hope!! :P

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OOOOOH MY G...... ( now crying ... this is sooooooo perfect )

I was just having this wonderfull conversation with a great friend and here is Lili saying what i wanted to say myself . ESP gurl ... ESP

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It always seems sad in life that bad things happen quite often to good and unsuspecting individuals. Some blame God (whoever that represents to them) and some thank Him for sparing them. While a very religous God loving and fearing person, I've come to the conclusion bad things happen just because they do. It's not a matter of God and it's not a matter of who we are. Bad, as well as good things happen as a matter of cause and effect of living.

My own life was spared as a 7 yo child. I accidently ran into the path of a baseball bat. When I was 20, I was diagnosed with an incurable autoimmune disease. I had many good years despite the disease. This week a year ago, I went into the hospital for my second surgery for my disease. My life was spared although my bowel had already perforated a week or so earlier. Scar tissue had saved my life. Then in the course of undergoing that surgery I was given a drug to avoid DVT, but due to an allergic reaction to it, the opposite occured and I had to lose part of my right leg. The whole episode blew my mind. As when I was diagnosed with CD, I asked and implored of God, "Why me?" Just as years ago, the answer came back, "Why not you?" What should make me more exempt of a particular problem than somebody else? Nothing. Just because I believe in the Lord with all my heart and being does not make me exempt of bad things happening to me. The only thing He has promised me is that He will give me the strength to endure whatever I must face as long as I have faith in Him that He will do so. Without my faith and belief, I would be dead today because I would have taken my own life. The two problems I now take with me through the rest of my life makes me want to just give up. Since I am 57, all I can wonder about is the burden I might become to my loved ones as I grow old. But I believe only the Lord knows how long my life may be, so perhaps there is something only I can accomplish until He does take me home and maybe I won't be the burden I worry about at present.

The bottom line is I do believe the Christian principles and in the end, they have never let me down. When the bad stuff comes, the Lord lifts me up and helps me continue on.

Carole

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